Is The Independent Biased?
Looks like we have our first counter point to the "banish the bias" at the News-Press coverage. These are clearly not my views but I am happy to post this and see how it goes.....by Anonymous 9:26 AM. Thanks for offering a little more than we've seen in the past...
Sara
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"Independent is biased" isn't good enough here -- provide some examples and I'll put them up.
Wow.
How about that the guy who writes the chief editorial, also does the reporting? How would the hencoop here feel if Travis was doing the editorials and the reporting at the same time? Be honest, my little chickens.
How about that half of some bitter ex-NewsPress employee's articles in the Independent are about the News-Press? Coincidence? Or how about a bitter agenda?
Sara, you SO have a double standard, and you're incredibly biased. How many times has somebody posted that the "NewsPress is biased" without backing it up that you have been comfortable with posting.
Also, it's not about the hedge....it's about fair coverage and whether there are different rules for different people.
How many hedge issues have made it to the paper that didn't involve the famous people? Is there a hedge section of the NewsPress that consistently reports on hedge activity, that had a glaring omission of the All Important Lowe Hedge? Uhh, no.
You know who has different rules for different people? You do.
Sara
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"Independent is biased" isn't good enough here -- provide some examples and I'll put them up.
Wow.
How about that the guy who writes the chief editorial, also does the reporting? How would the hencoop here feel if Travis was doing the editorials and the reporting at the same time? Be honest, my little chickens.
How about that half of some bitter ex-NewsPress employee's articles in the Independent are about the News-Press? Coincidence? Or how about a bitter agenda?
Sara, you SO have a double standard, and you're incredibly biased. How many times has somebody posted that the "NewsPress is biased" without backing it up that you have been comfortable with posting.
Also, it's not about the hedge....it's about fair coverage and whether there are different rules for different people.
How many hedge issues have made it to the paper that didn't involve the famous people? Is there a hedge section of the NewsPress that consistently reports on hedge activity, that had a glaring omission of the All Important Lowe Hedge? Uhh, no.
You know who has different rules for different people? You do.
posted by Sara De la Guerra | 12/08/2006 09:45:00 AM
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83 Comments:
Thanks for sending this in -- I encourage anyone to do so,
As for your first point, I'm not so sure Travis isn't reporting at the same time if he is directing what news gets written in the newsroom and what does not. I'm sure there are plenty of Independent folks that will answer the allegations towards their editor separately to my comment.
Second point assumes that the News-Press Mess isn't an important issue in our community. Sorry -- it is and will be for some time. Being in Vanity Fair and Business Week means that it has even broader implications -- and appropriate subject matter for even former employees of the NP.
I may be biased but I do allow other view points to be published -- I just don't see that on the editorial section or the letters section of the News-Press. There is much more diversity of opinion here at BlogaBarbara than I have ever seen in the News-Press. You shouldn't have an argument there from anyone that really pays attention. My pact with the community that reads this blog centers on offering a place to discuss the issues of the day -- no matter what your opinion is. As for the NP's pact with our community, if they are going to tell the world that they want to banish bias in your newsroom, they better back it up by their actions.
Finally re-read some of the posts above to see how it really isn't about the hedge.
Whether it is about the hedge or not he raised the subject. Yes the NP does other stories about hedges. Case in point a lady on the Westside that refused to cut her hedge after being directed by the city to do so.
In the current controversy it is of secondary interest that a celeb is involved. When anybody sues a neighbor over the cutting of a hedge it is news.
Calling a reporter “biased” is like calling the Pope “Catholic” and really isn’t an affective way to defend the Newspress or attack the Indy.
Every individual newspaper, every individual reporter, every individual anything, for that matter, has a bias. It has to be there by virtue of it simply existing. Whether bias exists in individual things can not be debated. Even the most evenly balanced article written by the most skilled reporter HAS to be biased at least 0.0000000000001%. Dig?
Now, finding an example of Indy bias as egregious and blatant as the Lowe incident would require some digging. Bias is one thing. Egregious and blatant bias is another.
And if any McCaw supporters think the Indy is biased against them and their “cause”, whatever that is, they should supply at least one shred of evidence backing up their spin on the meltdown; other news outlets would undoubtedly report and debate it.
But you can’t repeatedly insist the color red is blue and then expect dignified news outlets to develop stories around your false assertions. Ignoring lies is not bias.
bias: a preference or inclination that inhibits impartiality. Do you fit? Lowe's story should be in the NewsPress because I wanna know what kind of people live in my hood!
I know an O.C. Weekly-affiliated journalist who could not believe the Indy hadn't done a series of investigative reports on the St. Francis purchase and project--one that he thought was absolutely shocking, and with so many irregularities and allegations that should have been checked out and exposed by an enterprising reporter and a proactive press. The guy was trying to figure out an angle so he could write about it in conservative OC, far from the influences of SB's "leaders."
and a story about Al Gore being the savior isn't biased?
There isn't any NP meltdown, just restructuring and downsizing.
Sure, the Independent has lots of biases, and some bad reporting too. Their knowledge of Goleta and Isla Vista is rudimentary, and they often repeat myths and folktales without fact checking.
I remember one Indy article a few years ago referring to the (now) million dollar homes in Storke Ranch as workforce housing.
Every time I've written into the Indy they've printed it, and sometimes I get an e-mail from Nick Welsh with a droll comment.
The SBNP has buried 3 or 4 of my letters without a word back.
BTW, Nick Welsh's column is an editorial column, but I never am confused that the Angry Poodle might be the official view of the Independent. An analogous situation might be Randy Alcorn's (late?) column in the NP.
I'm sure Nick dispatches reporters and suggest stories to cover, so he influences the stories in the Independent big time. But the effect is about 10 times smaller than that of the News-Press, where it looks like reporters fear for their livelihood over minor and unforeseeable reporting.
Worker Bee is right re: everyone & every reporter has some type of bias. Most if not all publications & blogs have an agenda whether hidden or overt. The real issue is whether a publication or blog encourages healthy discourse by regularly publishing well-reasoned opinion pieces & letters that provide an opposing viewpoint. However, the Rob Lowe hedge story is in a different category. The reason the N-P should have covered that story is because they have previously covered the Lowes' housing issues so it would have made sense to do a follow-up. The absence of that story makes it appear that the N-P is catering to the Lowes who (it has been reported elsewhere) had sent Mrs. McCaw a letter expressing displeasure that their address had been printed in the paper.
One more time....worker bee, this is reposted for you. Some of the latest bias from the Independent pro-high-density reporting:
2. Independent, last weeks edition. An article on a development company's recommendations to the SB School District emphasized that the school board has to make a tough decision. But this is not true. The school board's job is to put the community first, and even at that they still have options to develop at current zoning AND make money. Neighbors of parcels owned by the school district have stated that they will support current zonings. The analysis presented at the meetings included lower densities WITH 50% teacher housing that would yield as much $$$ as the high density option. The school board's decision should be an easy one. But the Indy chose to leave out part of the analysis and play up the "need" for high densities. Biased, indeed!!!
Whether it is about the hedge or not he raised the subject. Yes the NP does other stories about hedges. Case in point a lady on the Westside that refused to cut her hedge after being directed by the city to do so.
In the current controversy it is of secondary interest that a celeb is involved. When anybody sues a neighbor over the cutting of a hedge it is news.
Good job, that's one incident. Now, my point again, do all hedge incidents get reported? In order for Hedge-gate to be of any significance, can you state that all hedge incidents are reported in the News-Press except celebrity hedge incidents?
I personally know of a hedge incident that occurred this year that didn't get reported in the News-Press. Can you tell me where and when it occurred using your super-sleuth Independent newspaper? I'll give you a hint: it occurred in Montecito, of all places and it didn't involve famous people.
...and now that the shoe is on the other foot, WB is saying "Every individual newspaper, every individual reporter, every individual anything, for that matter, has a bias."
Hmm. Funny how we can change our tune when the tables turn!
When the Indy stops publishing letters about stuff that the bosses there do not like, then call them BIASED then.
They publish letters and essays critical of their coverage and against their editorial positions all the time.
How often does that happen over in Storke Castle on the People's Plaza??
Sara,
Your first point suggests that no we can't go on like this any longer. But why? The office is open to you at all times. Secondly, I totally disagree with your allegation that the Independent has been hiring up News Press staff to heighten the sense of urgency around the latest NP changes. Thirdly, your suggestion is poorly timed. But keep trying. You have potential.
Second point assumes that the News-Press Mess isn't an important issue in our community.
Did I say that, or are you imagining that I said that? I did say that Barney is bitter and having 50% of his junk being about the News-Press reeks of agenda. Does the News-Press represent 50% of what to talk about in this town? Not to me, but maybe to you guys in the hencoop.
Sorry -- it is and will be for some time.
Not really. But I bet that you hope it does.
Being in Vanity Fair and Business Week means that it has even broader implications -- and appropriate subject matter for even former employees of the NP.
I'll bet that you have those articles cut-out and pinned to your cubicle wall. You have a shrine of bitterness.
You mean there are people who actually think the Independent isn't biased??? Next thing you will tell me is there are people who doubt that Mother Jones is left-wing and Human Events is right-wing.
Listen to me: The SB Independent is a left-wing tabloid! The SB News-Press is a politically schizophrenic rag!
And in case this fails to bring you back to reality; there is no tooth fairy, Clinton inhailed (more than once), Gore didn't invent the internet and OJ isn't really searching for the real killers.
I dont support the News Press, and I do enjoy the Independent but take almost anything I read in there with a grain of salt. It is a weekly prone to bias which is fine, and as for columnists they are expected to have a opinion which puts them in a different area for journalistic rules. They can have a bias but are expected to get their facts right.
In the Indy's cover stories Ive seen glaring inaccuricies and bias at times, other times thoughtful and well researched articles. Its hit and miss for news I dont read it for its news value because of that, its more for entertainment and local events. I find edhat and the sound to both be better for local news to a extent.
The big problem is that the two print big dogs are both biased and substandard publications necessary for a informed local population. Its ridiculous that if you want to keep up locally you have to go to 4 or 5 sources, the city deserves better.
Well, it looks like there is strong recognition of the Indy bias. This blog just likes to focus on the NP, but it's nice to see that the Indy bias is up for scrutiny, too. Should someone start www.savetheindependent.com?
David Pritchett claims that he believes that posting letters of opposition makes up for imbalanced reporting, but I don't agree. NP also does print letters that go against their editorials, and they probably receive more letters than the Indy.
For the record, I did have a letter printed in the Indy once, but the editor's gave it a title that confused the point I was making. That twist seemed intentional to me, as it went against the usual views in the paper. We've all agreed before that the Indy is primarily an entertainment mag, but I don't think that justifies the imbalanced reporting. Especially when the Indy and their employees are leading the anti-NP charge.
Of course, bias is only part of the N-P problem.
They have big-time image problems now... whether or not Tom Storke followed through, his principles for running a newspaper were right there on the masthead. And he clearly cared a lot about the community and his newspaper.
The Indy clearly cares a lot too.
The current News-Press? The publishers canoodle in Yugoslovia with vacuous celebrities as their shop in Santa Barbara implodes. Wendy and von Weiselberg could work every job from janitor up through editor for the next 10 years and still not erase the image debacle they've caused.
Voice of Reason,
The shoe is not on the other foot. I agree that the Indy is biased. It has to be. The NP is biased as well, and it always has been because human beings are running the show. The bias is always there. How you're biased is the question. What end does your bias serve?
I do think that that currently, the brand of bias traded by the Indy and the NP differ greatly. Anon 4:53 put it very well: "Listen to me: The SB Independent is a left-wing tabloid! The SB News-Press is a politically schizophrenic rag!"
True, that. Given a choice of the above biases, I want the one that at least can be politically labeled.
As for me personally, I've railed more on what McCaw is doing to her employees. I'm not all peppered up about "The Wall". I think it's important, very, but I also think it pales in comparison to the choices McCaw makes when it comes the livelihood of others. My anger with the NP comes from McCaw's ability to f-over her fellow man for shear spite and then try to spin it as good business. Take Burns, for example.
The NP said she's biased, so they fired her. Well, of course she is - she's human. I'm even less impressed by that explanation, though, because they have produced no evidence. And even if they produce a handful of stories, I'm still not impressed unless the bias is outlandish. I dare anyone to find a veteran journalist without a few slightly slanted stories with their byline. You're going to need aggregious examples along the lines of McCaw stoking her sex-with-a-minor-taping buddy Lowe to make one allegation worth Burn's fate in my mind.
Burns was fired out spite. McCaw's spite. I think that's utterly, utterly despicable and I'd love to hear your defense of putting a good, decent, hard working person out of their home and out of their job because of spite. Go ahead and defend spite. Do corporate greed while you're at it.
So, fire good people, defend a celebrity child molester. That's the current brand of NP bias and it stinks like shite compared to the Indy's.
I stopped at the Farmers Market the other day and apples were $1.50 a pound, while oranges were $.75 a piece.
The Independent is a weekly entertainment paper -- what used to be called "counter-cultural" before they all were co-opted. There is no attempt to cover all the local news, but they include a few stories and some opinion to fill out the spaces between the ads.
The News-Press is a daily which purports to be a newspaper. One might think at first glance that is is the newspaper of record for the city. As such, you might think their editors would be selecting stories based on their import to the community at large. Instead they appear to be applying narrow, personal likes and dislikes in their news coverage.
Yes, every paper has its bias, and so does every editor. Nobody ever accused Tom Storke of taking an unbiased view of anything in this town. But a) he had some coherent political principles behind his bias; and b) he didn't try to kill all the news that conflicted with his point of view.
I'm reading Barney and Starshine in the Indy and I see a lot of stuff that is not N-P oriented. They are doing their jobs and not whining as far as I can see.
Good point about St Francis. As far as I can tell both papers and the TV media missed the boat on that story. But, hey...it's never to late!
Now, back to those apples and oranges...
Anon 12:58 I think you hit the nail on the head, in that neither of major local papers do any real investigative reporting. There are tons of things that could be done, but are and have been totally ignored over the years. This is nothing new and not exclusively to the NP. It's a shame because we aren't properly served by any of it.
Oh, to only have a first rate news media here.
This may not come under the heading of biased, but you have to wonder what's happening on Figueroa Street when the Indy endorses Arnold Schwarzenegger for re-election, and annoints uber-downtown developer Marshall Rose as a local hero.
BTW, Nick Welsh's column is an editorial column, but I never am confused that the Angry Poodle might be the official view of the Independent.
But he also does reporting. So, the question again, would the hencoop be up in arms if Travis was reporting and writing editorials at the same time? Answer: Yes, the hencoop would be in a frenzy, with Sara De L'Agenda leading the charge. You would be announcing some new protest (sponsered by SBCAN) that would be the last great hope for our beseiged community blah blah blah...
The Independent staff accusing the News Press of biased reporting, while hiding behind the defense that the Indy is an entertainment weekly, is like a hooker accusing a nightclub showgirl of being a slut. Knock it off and do some real reporting! Both of you!
Looks like we have our first counter point to the "banish the bias" at the News-Press coverage.
Our first counter point? You don't listen very well. It must be hard to hear deep inside your mob.
These are clearly not my views but I am happy to post this and see how it goes
We know they are not your views. I think the question is what is the true purpose of this blog.
Here is the distinction ....
While the Indy purports to be nothing more than it is, the News-Press bills its product as a general interest and mainstream daily newspaper.
Biased publications are fine, as long as they make no bones about their bent. Bias only becomes a problem when it's obvious yet denied.
McCaw Disobeythelaw can have her product for all time. But the marketplace will judge that product on far more than its legal right to exist.
from 5:07p
forgot to add in my previous post.
While I think they (Indy) are biased and let it show, I do think their reporting on the News Press Fiasco has been excellent.
The News Press situation is more upsetting because,
A) they used to be decent
B) they were are only local paper of record
C) the actions by the Travis/Wendy cabal are so far against the standards the paper used to have.
But a positive note, Travis will never ever be able to get a job again in journalism at a real paper and he knows it he will be off to PR Land or putting out press releases for a very small advocacy group somewhere. Seriously hes is already washed up and Wendy will throw that toy away at some point.
The only problem I see with the NP is that McCaw bought a paper in 2000 and got stuck with incompetent employee's. Look, if those reporters were that good, they would not have migrated to a free weekly newspaper with even MORE incompetent reporters. She need's fire more...not rehire the likes of Melinda Burns.
B) they WERE the only local paper of record
The News-Press reeks of poor editing, lousy news judgement and mediocre execution in addition to avoidance of information and news disliked by its owner. In other words, a complete misunderstanding of the Santa Barbara area. The Independent is little better. Its coverage is weak. There's no investigative reporting and no hard-nosed coverage of governmental issues. Most of its cover stories are of the "who-cares" variety of news. The Independent's perspective is liberal, but not smart or thoughtful liberal just silly and juvenile liberal. Poor Santa Barbara readers. Thank goodness for smart niche papers like the Pacific Coast Business Times and Latino Today. Also the Tribune in San Luis Obispo County is very good.
If the writers really wanted a union to represent the News-Press employees, they could've drawn up a charter (or whatever it is called) such that a greater portion of employees were protected rather than just the writers.
Because such an exclusive grouping was selected, a great portion (I daresay the majority) of other NP employees not only do not support the writers, but openly resent them.
7:35, 7:41 and 7:42 -- some of you get so mean after a few drinks on Friday nights. Don't drink and blog!
The purpose of this blog is to create community discussion on news-related topics. Some of you with NP management would like to spin it such that the News-Press Mess is not news, but it is. If it was anything else, the comments allowed wouldn't include your own. Please respect the fact that no matter what my personal biases are -- you, too, have a forum to discuss these issues. BlogaBarbara was here a long time before the Mess....partially because I had concerns about how they were doing business but also because there are a lot of issues in our area that need discussion. In the end, we mean very little in the big scheme of things -- and that is fine. The News-Press will either continue doing what it is doing or more and more people will cancel their subscriptions or competition will beat them out. It's a free market and this is free speech.
The Independent's perspective is liberal, but not smart or thoughtful liberal just silly and juvenile liberal.
And... Sounds like most of Santa Barbara, so they fit right in.
Part of the reason why the Indy comes off as so juvenile is that it is written by so many, um, juveniles. The unpaid interns and poorly paid, inexperienced entry level staffers far outnumber the seasoned journalists--at least until the recent influx of former N-P writers. It's a real shame that the Independent doesn't share some of its bigtime ad dollars, and pay some of the many outstanding freelance writers with real-world credentials (who live right here in Santa Barbara) to write important stories on a regular basis. There's the occasional serious piece, but the silly round-up stories (designed to attract ads) often outweigh the relevant. I know local writers who say they would love to produce a particular piece for the Indy, but the pay just isn't there. Too bad for them, too bad for all of us.
Dear 1:01,
Wrong. Each department at the NP knows it is free to join the union. No charter yet created. Nobody "selected" as you put it.
The door is wide open.
Dear Wendy,
The free market is wonderful, and wobbly.
I do not like the subjects that the Independent news articles cover, so therefore that newspaper must be biased.
The news story last week, for instance, was about how some City Council members leaked confidential information from a closed meeting about the police union salaries and contract. The leak was to tell the police labor union itself what happened, and who said it, during that legally closed session meeting of the city council.
Obviously, a proper and fair newspaper would not conclude that such an action was newsworthy, and thus have no bias. The Newspress in editorials has supported the police union versus the City of Santa Barbara, so obviously not considering those leaks as legitimate news must be a way not to show bias.
So in conclusion, Independent is biased, and Newspress is not. Glad we so easily figured this all out.
OF COURSE the Independent is biased! It's an alternative newsweekly, a medium known for scrappy stands and filling in cracks missed by other media. But don't overstate it's mission (nice try, Nipper).
Daily newspapers are a different animal, and we desperately need them in our growing cultural cacophony of egomaniac editorialists and partisan bloggers (no offense, Sara). In fact, newspapers are often the only dedicated voice of reason for the public interest, with reporters tasked to sift through the gossip and hype to reach a reasonable -- and objective -- estimation of the truth.
In these times of straying politicians and plutocrats, we need newspapers more than ever.
C'mon people!
anarchopenletter is completely wrong.
The voting was only open to WRITERS. Inquiries of membership by not one but TWO other departments were returned with "you don't need it" or "you need to find your own union".
How do I know?
I am very close to three different people at the News-Press in two different departments. I am not Wendy. I do not work there.
I picked up a News-Press today for the first time in weeks. Actually some good articles in it... Tom Schultz on the new Goleta City Council, and buried deep inside was a Nora Wallace article on an income tax consultant who has had deep associations with the Chumash. But he separated with the tribe, but still advised some tribe members to evade income tax via some kind of deferred compensation scheme. Looks like the IRS isn't buying it.
But Wallace's article was buried... perhaps because TKA won't let stuff critical of the Chumash get on the front page.
Worker Bee, I will not defend the firing of Burns. The points you make regarding that sound reasonable to me. I don't know anything about the working conditions at the News Press, but obviously there is a problem. The subject here is BIAS, and specifically, leveling the standards held to our most widely circulated written news sources in town: the NP and the Indy.
so...trying again...this is an rerepost for worker bee...who asked for an example of bias from the Indy:
(this kind of reporting is damaging to the entire community; doesn't anybody care to comment?):
2. Independent, last weeks edition. An article on a development company's recommendations to the SB School District emphasized that the school board has to make a tough decision. But this is not true. The school board's job is to put the community first, and even at that they still have options to develop at current zoning AND make money. Neighbors of parcels owned by the school district have stated that they will support current zonings. The analysis presented at the meetings included lower densities WITH 50% teacher housing that would yield as much $$$ as the high density option. The school board's decision should be an easy one. But the Indy chose to leave out part of the analysis and play up the "need" for high densities. Biased, indeed!!!
I love this Blog Sara!
Keep up the good work. I know it is time consuming and can be difficult at times. There are a great number of people who enjoy this blog and a few who don't but still read it.
Sara you choice a topic this time it timely and the comments are of such a wide range it makes great reading. Thanks to all that comment and making this blog such a success and a part of the on line community.
I have always enjoyed the Independent ( great to read at the beach) but never took it's articles seriously other than as just one mans point of view. It has always been a good source of entertainment, ads and events around the area similar to the LA Weekly down south. But now it is all that we have and it would be great if they could fill in the void that is left in this city..... guess i can go have a drink now lol.
Yes, the independent has a liberal bias….so what.
Reporters are innately liberal as most people are liberal, including most Republicans.
McCaw and Armstrong need a conservative writing staff to compliment their baiting conservative editorial demeanor and accomplish their goals of diminished government. That is what this self-inflicted rift is about at the News Press and unfortuantely the reporters are the casualties.
The reporters at the News-Press are rightfully in a fighting mode because their employer is trying not only to make them what they are not but what is contrary to reporting altogether.
No real professional would want to lie like a Fox “Fair and Balanced“ “News” network.
By the we all fell into the Fox-type conservative tactic or trap of re-directing the attention toward someone else other than the offender. Lets get back to holding the News Press accountable.
A clarification for 5:46 p.m.
At the News-Press, the voting was open to writers, copy editors and photographers in the newsroom, the people involved in producing the editorial product.
Employees in other departments can vote to join a union, but because they do different types of work, they have to join a different "bargaining unit," based on the kind of work they do. This means a separate election and a different contract. Even if the union were the Teamsters, employees in other departments would have to have their own election.
When the New York Times bought the newspaper in 1985, there were three separate bargaining units representing employees through unions.
7:41 pm responding to Sara at 1:37pm
Thanks for the insult? I thought it was an appropriate metaphor. Must have hit a nerve though. Oops.
7:41 -- my apologies, I went a little too far there. The nerve is that BlogaBarbara is not what some would make it out to be.....I'm just writing about what I am interested about and you are responding. No one is pulling the strings here and there is no true purpose other than creating discussion about issues which affect our community.
BlogaBarbara is doing a great job here! Someone showed me this site. Is this also Wendy's bias? When will the NP tell us they aren't doing a local column & explain why this? These people scare other Republicans. You may need to search for Dr. Laura. Now I know where she gets her book suggestions. Other conservatives are talking about this because the racism is too much. Not a discussion for Santa Barbara?
Dear 5:46 .....
My letter is not wrong as you describe. I never in my comments even touched on who the voting in this one particular election was open to (and, yes, it included writers, as you say in bold capital letters, but realize too that it also included copy editors, page designers, photographers and graphic artists).
What I said, actually, is that every department is free to join the union. It's a fact.
More union organizing -- and more elections, department by department -- across the Santa Barbara News-Press would be quite fine.
Have your interested friends call Marty Keegan. Not sure who told you about the rejections that your friends allege, but just because something was said or perhaps perceived doesn't mean it's so.
Unionizing is a right in this country, just like free speech or voting. Your friends are free to do so.
Dear Wendy,
Unions are a part of the free trade equation. But only sometimes. And now.
Voice Of Reason,
Having no knowledge of the development company's analysis and recommendations, I can't speak to your example concerning the decision faced by the school board not being difficult - clearly to you it is a "no brainer". But that's not the point.
Ignorant as I am, the "no brainer" view is your opinion of what I bet is surely a complicated issue. The Indy took the opposite stance. But, as you're pointing out, this stance was interjected into their story. That would be bias, yes.
But I didn't ask for a mere example of bias - I know it's there. If you'll recall, I was asserting that bias comes with the territory of man made documents, and therefore I'm not disturbed by individual bias in individual stories - and to be fair, when you write a news story, you have to make choices on what information to include and how much weight to give particular facts - what is important. And you can not make this decision without offending someone.
I'm much more offended by Wendy's particular bias. It's not a political slant, but a personal vendetta. I'd be more tolerant of her noodling if her stance was at least a heartfelt concern for the direction of public policy. It's not. She's concerned purely with herself. Me, me, me. She and her little pets are fighting to either avoid admitting their juve management mistakes or to have the opportunity to slurp from McCaw's money trough - and they're plowing through peoples livelihoods to meet these ends.
This is the stance seeping into the paper under Scott Steepleton's watch. Steepleton: whose only qualification for his post is the ability to do McCaw's bidding with a straight face (Unless you also count "ability to trade respect and dignity for money" as a separate skill - then he has two qualifications.)
And for bias, had the Rob Lowe story run, and had it been slanted in his favor, as you suggest the Indy slanted the school board story, I could live with that. I would expect it. But the decision to kill stories outright because of bias is a whole new level of slant that is intolerable. (And from my view point, I just happen to find McCaw's particular bias against everything but herself to be revolting.)
I'll ask the question again. If Travis was writing editorials and news articles at the same time, (just like Nick Welsh does all the time), would you be up in arms about it?
So what's the most popluar excuse amongst the hencoop here as to why its OK that the Independent is biased?
a.) it's not a daily newspaper
b.) it's an entertainment rag
c.) it's bias, but its a "healthy discourse"
d.) Independent employees don't fear for their lives
Any others?
Worker Bee said:
"Having no knowledge of the development company's analysis and recommendations, I can't speak to your example concerning the decision faced by the school board not being difficult - clearly to you it is a "no brainer". But that's not the point."
I say:
It is the point. See, since the papers are slanting the story and reporting inadequately, you, the reader who has not attended these meetings and followed them firsthand, are completely misinformed.
That is my point. There's little to no quality reporting on these types of issues, and Santa Barbara is suffering because of it. The Indy needs to do better than just fingering the NP and relishing in office gossip. They either need to hold themselves to the same standards, or stop "reporting" local "news"; stick to entertainment and opinions.
I'd be up in arm if Nick Walsh contributed to the pointless interruption - if not outright destruction - of peoples' livelihoods at the request of a tyrannical pig magnet.
And it's not Ok that the Indy is biased. It's not not ok, either. It just is and always will be.
Only stories that run contribute to a healthy discourse.
Roosters dig the hencoop. Watch out for pigs disguised as foxes.
Voice OR,
I hear you, and I think you make some very good points, I don't agree with this, though:
"They [the Indy] either need to hold themselves to the same standards, or stop "reporting" local "news"; stick to entertainment and opinions."
I think by this you're saying the Indy operates at a very low standard. I disagree. Weekly papers like the Indy across the country serve a vital function - the NP meltdown exemplifies their role. The Indy is a loose enough canon to take things too far on occasion, but it maintains enough street cred to take seriously when speaking truth to power. I think the Indy plays this role very well, again, the NP story a shining example.
Let me ask, anyone: When the Indy broke the meltdown story, did you have trouble believing Welsh? I didn't. Turns out nothing he wrote was untrue.
I'd be up in arm if Nick Walsh contributed to the pointless interruption - if not outright destruction - of peoples' livelihoods at the request of a tyrannical pig magnet.
So, Travis is destroying people's lives? The people that quit? That's the difference?
And it's not Ok that the Indy is biased. It's not not ok, either. It just is and always will be.
Nice copout, tyrannical double-standard magnet.
And for bias, had the Rob Lowe story run, and had it been slanted in his favor, as you suggest the Indy slanted the school board story, I could live with that. I would expect it. But the decision to kill stories outright because of bias is a whole new level of slant that is intolerable.
I can just imagaine the incredible tension around the News-Press when Wendy stormed in and killed the hedge story. The shock and awe around the room must have been palpable. The audacity to kill, quite possibly, one of the greatest hedge stories of our time is inexcusable. Not since the "grassy knoll" has some kind of vegetation meant so much to so many people.
Looks like TKA has returned from VACATION.
Will be interesting to see if time away gave him any perspective.
Anon 2:33;
Yes, Travis has contributed a great deal to the disruption - if not the premature end - of people's careers in journalism (not to mention their prospects of paying their mortgage).
People quit not because they wanted to - because yes-men like Travis decided McCaw's money is more valueable than dignity, so they hung around the NP and helped create an atmosphere of fear and loathing designed to break the wills of people interested in legally forming a union. Yes, yes, yes...boohoo...people loose their jobs, companies have the right to blah blah blah.
Well the public has the right to point and laugh at McCaw and her gang of losers while they run the paper like the Keystone Cops. Thank goodness it's a matter of months before the Union gets to bargain and the employees can back to reporting and stop worrying about whether McCaw will fire them for writing a little story about Rob Lowe.
As I've written before, bias I can handle to a degree. Treating peoples lives and work like fun little play things in a game of Lawyer Ball, that makes me extremely angry in a real way.
Explain the cop out comment. What am I coping out of and what double standard am I suggesting?
I'll ask the question again. If Travis was writing editorials and news articles at the same time, (just like Nick Welsh does all the time), would you be up in arms about it?
This question betrays a profound ignorance (or disingenuousness) of how newspapers operate in general, and circumstances at the News-Press and the Independent in particular.
Nick is a columnist as well as a reporter and editor. It's his job to write opinionated pieces. Being a columnist does not, by any standard in journalism, preclude him from writing straight news stories. It happens in most papers, mainstream and alternative, in this country.
You cannot compare Nick with Travis, and what TKA did at the News-Press to incite the indignation of the newsroom staff and editors. To recap: Travis, in his newly appointed role as overseer of the newsroom (as publisher while still the editorial page editor) actually interfered with reporting by trying to force Camilla Cohee to inject his opinions into her story about Donna Jordan's retirement from the Carp City Council. When Cohee balked, Travis killed the story. Those actions are a grave breach of journalism ethics. The wall between opinion and reporting? Gone.
Now consider Nick: Has he ever interfered with reporting at the Indy? No. Has ever tried to force his opinions into the stories of other writers? No. And that's why it doesn't matter that he's also a columnist.
This thred is great for discussion, but rather ludicrous when it comes to actual facts and realities. All newspapers are biased! However, the challenge is separating out the bias from the news gathering, which The Indy does well and the News-Press used to do well. Of course, the Indy's slant is progressive, which in this day and age means pro-density over sprawl, pro-environment over corporate profits, pro-social freedoms over government oppression. And, what do you know, that's the general stance of Santa Barbara. Wow, a paper that reflects the sentiments of the town it serves! That's bias we should be proud of.
As for The Indy's investigative reporting, it has waxed and waned over the years, but the recent Farmers Market cover story by Ethan Stewart was a good example of enterprise reporting. There was the Meth cover by Sadler. Then there was the Uganda cover story by Kettman. And there have been other stories as well over the past few years, though I'd have to agree there should be more.
As for the "juveniles" who write the Indy, what load of garbage is that? The staff is paid a living wage; one editor is also a contributor to Time magazine; other contributors write and shoot for Vanity Fair, the NY Times, Wine Spectator, Ode Magazine, and Rolling Stone, among many other national pubs; hardly any interns actually write (check the bylines); and they manage to put out what's considered one of the best weekly newspapers in America.
That fact is verified every year at the annual Association of Alternative Newsweekly conference, where The Indy is the fastest stack of papers to disappear each time. Just ask anyone in the organization. Also, for its market size, The Indy is a leader by far, judged among the big weeklies of the world, and also considered an innovator for stitch and trim publishing, color printing, and the like.
So that's that. The bias is there, but we should be happy for it.
Explain the cop out comment. What am I coping out of and what double standard am I suggesting?
That you hold the Indy to a different set of rules.
People quit not because they wanted to
Opinion and wrong, by the shear fact that other employees are still there. People had a choice to continue to work there, or act like an ass, or leave etc. There was a choice and there will be a choice. From everything I have heard of actual instances that actually occurred at the NewsPress, I gotta say that I have worked at places that were worse, but I always felt that I controlled whether I left or stayed.
As I've written before, bias I can handle to a degree. Treating peoples lives and work like fun little play things in a game of Lawyer Ball, that makes me extremely angry in a real way.
Well, you're anger is misguided, because you have no idea whether Travis or Wendy treat people's lives like little play things. You think you do, but you actually don't.
Anon. 1:48
Wrong on all counts. I'm not holding them to a different standard. So far, all I've said is that on a personal level I expect bias from all papers. I reserve judgement for the end that bias serves.
Because of McCaw's actions, the employees' choice was, do you stay on the sinking ship, or do you take your chances in the water? I'll concede to you that they had and have a choice, albeit a rotten one, thanks to McCaw and Nipper von Mountebank's gross mismanagement (minus Frazier and Burns, who in my judgement were illegally fired. But that's for a court to decide.).
As for treating peoples lives like playthings, your assertion that I don't know what I'm talking about is betrayed by all the facts on the ground. The truth is the truth, my friend. BREAKING NEWS: PEOPLE CURRENTLY WORKING FOR MCCAW NOT MUTES - PROVIDE DAILY ANECDOTES OUTLINING SCARE TACTICS PASSED DOWN BY MANAGEMENT.
Anon. 12:50 sounds like an Indy plant. Somebody else wrote earlier that both the Indy & the N-P are rags, or words to that effect (either on this thread or another--sorry, I'm too lazy to look for it) & I have to agree. Even before the mess, the N-P wasn't the best paper (awards notwithstanding) & now it's worse. But the Indy isn't great either; Nick Welsh is the best thing about it. Most of the other writers would greatly benefit from a good editor, not to mention a decent proofreader. The cover stories often seem to lack a local connection (e.g., the Uganda story--sorry, I'd rather read about that elsewhere, such as the NYT; I expect the local weekly to have local stories that I can't read in the NYT). Also, for those of us who are non-political, all the little juvenile lefty jabs get tiresome. Why is it necessary to include them even in reviews of movies that have nothing to do with politics? I can't imagine that the Indy is really considered one of the best free weeklies--IMHO, even compared with the OC Weekly or the SD Reader (just to name 2 that aren't the greatest either) it's pretty weak. I think it's sad that our print choices are between the N-P, the Sound & the Indy--this town deserves a first-class publication & none of the above are. I'm just grateful for Edhat, Craig Smith & this blog. The recent post from News Guy was especially good. Thanks for keeping this going!
Wrong on all counts. I'm not holding them to a different standard. So far, all I've said is that on a personal level I expect bias from all papers. I reserve judgement for the end that bias serves.
Yes you are, by the language you use and stance you have chosen. You are not objective at all with the News-Press because of the words you choose.
People quit not because they wanted to - because yes-men like Travis decided McCaw's money is more valueable than dignity, so they hung around the NP and helped create an atmosphere of fear and loathing designed to break the wills of people interested in legally forming a union.
So overly dramatic that you lose credibilty. "money is more valuable than dignity"? C'mon. That's ridiculous.
Worker Bee said:"So far, all I've said is that on a personal level I expect bias from all papers. I reserve judgement for the end that bias serves."
Ohhhhh! Now I get it! Biased newspapers are OK, as long as the bias matches your own!! The Indy has a bias to proud of, but the NP needs to TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!!
Of course. That all makes SO much sense.
Of course, the Indy's slant is progressive, which in this day and age means pro-density over sprawl, pro-environment over corporate profits, pro-social freedoms over government oppression. And, what do you know, that's the general stance of Santa Barbara. Wow, a paper that reflects the sentiments of the town it serves! That's bias we should be proud of.
Pro-density is the sentiment of the town? Have you been to a single government meeting where a high-density project is being proposed? The meetings universally meet with widespread anger from whatever neighborhood they are trying to densify. I guess if your idea of the town is SBCAN and Towbes and that's it, then maybe you're right.
"Bias we should be proud of". I like that. They should put that on the cover of the Independent every week.
Extra! Extra! Get your better-biased paper over here. Get The Independent now! Read about the poor journalists with duct over there mouths! Read about the neighborhoods adding traffic and losing views! The neighbors speak and nobody listens...but who cares? It's the poor journalists whining about their bosses that we really want hear! Get your better-biased paper, the Independent, today!
My way,
I'm just being honest. Again, there's no possible way for any paper to be totally unbiased, so the wise reader goes in knowing it's there.
As for reserving judgement for the end of the bias, what's wrong with that for me as an individual? Again, I find McCaw's goal utterly distasteful (fire employees, protect the rich, honor pigs, etc.).
I mean, the KKK is biased, right? I'm not offended that KKK members have opinions, but of course the goal of their rhetoric is someting most of aren't following.
-and-
anon 8:14,
I'm as objective as I can be with everything, which is to say of course I have a bias, I'm human. It's my opinion McCaw is a sad soul who likes to fight people in court. What a waste of money and effort and frankly I'd pity her if she wasn't trying to run my FRIENDS OUT OF TOWN.
And you can't be serious about people trading dignity for money. You really don't think that happens?
To Anon 8:22:
A vocal minority of NIMBYists should not be confused with the intelligent, environmentally understood notion that higher density is the future, whether you like ir or not. Sprawl clearly does not work and in order to save our wildlands and agriculture, we must think about infilling our towns. This will lead to better public transportation, less reliance on oil-sucking cars, and a better future for all of us, once the NIMBYs realize their intentions are selfish. It's worked in Europe and Asia for millennia -- why not here?
A vocal tiny minority of short-sighted elitists should not be given more representation than the large majority of environmentally-minded residents who know that density doesn't stop people from driving cars.
Developers are in this to make bank, not to provide long-term solutions. If high-density is put into place, we'll be out of "housing" for everyone AGAIN in a few short years, so then what???
What a waste of money and effort and frankly I'd pity her if she wasn't trying to run my FRIENDS OUT OF TOWN.
Overdramatic. I sincerely doubt that she truly cares if your friends stay in town or not.
And you can't be serious about people trading dignity for money. You really don't think that happens?
Sure, it has happened in the world, but not with Travis of all people. If you have met Travis, you would know that he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to compromise on his principles, whether you like them or not.
If you have met Travis, you would know that he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to compromise on his principles, whether you like them or not.
Oh, I've met him, all right. Many, many times. Sure, he can seem like a reasonable guy when he wants to, but he's a complete weasel. And c'mon, all you have to do is read his ridiculous, sophomoric columns and editorials to see that it's true. He hasn't just compromised his principles, he sold them to Wendy.
Anon 11:51am,
McCaw is forcing my friends out of jobs, which forces many to pull up stakes - some pretty deep - to find work.
I'd enjoy hearing you elaborate on your defence of absolute corporate power over employees and corporate greed.
As for TA, I suppose you are right. I don't know the man, so I'll assume he's compromised no principals. And what principals they are! With principals like that lunatic apparently has, who needs the corrupting influence of money. No wonder he buy's McCaw's corporate BS. I just thought he was a sellout, but it turns out he actually enjoys generating fear amongst employees.
Why did one of my posts not get posted? What was wrong with them? Is the double standard rearing again or did I not hit the publish button?
I have no idea which comment was yours but I rejected several today based on the fact that they either tried to identify another person who had self-identified as Anonymous, one for language and I generally try not to publish one word posts unless it means something. If you ran into one of those categories, that's probably why. There were some I agreed with and some I didn't by the way!
I have no idea which comment was yours but I rejected several today based on the fact that they either tried to identify another person who had self-identified as Anonymous, one for language and I generally try not to publish one word posts unless it means something. If you ran into one of those categories, that's probably why. There were some I agreed with and some I didn't by the way!
I'll take that as a yes that the double standard is still present. There was nothing in my post that was unpostable if the names alone were switched to the group you that are systemically trying to bash under the guise of being impartial. How many times have you willingly posted insult-ridden accusations against Nelville of being somebody specific? How many times have anonymous bloggers been accused of being someone specific? Where is the line on this blog?
9:15 pm -- please don't paint some picture like I have made some kind of vow to be impartial -- that would be misleading. I've said before I've let some comments pass that I shouldn't have -- what you need to know is that they have been from both sides of the aisle. I am not impartial in that I am firmly behind The Organized -- but that doesn't mean that I haven't let the NP Management backers have their say.
Give me civil comments and I will definitely publish them -- if you are mean, I may not. Kind of like a letter to the editor isn't it? The difference is you will find a lot more diversity of opinion here. Start your own blog if you think you can do better -- I promise to provide a link to it if you do.
Hey 9:15,
Goody for you, Sarah's offered to throw you a link! You can threaten McCaw here, but accuse anyone else of manipulating the masses and you get offered a link!
Anon 9:15pm,
I rip on Nipper and McCaw as much as I possibly caom time to time when I get too nasty or when I assign identity to bloggers.
And she's 100% right. It's her deal. Unlike the NP, you can start your own blog right now, for free. Go for it. (don't hate her when her blog continues to be the most popular, though.)
Anon 9:15pm,
This post got mangled somehow and should ahve read something like:
I rip on Nipper and McCaw as much as I possibly and am clearly on the side of The Organized, but Sara kills my posts from time to time when I get too nasty or when I assign identity to bloggers, etc.
And she's 100% right. It's her deal. Unlike the NP, you can start your own blog right now, for free. Go for it. (don't hate her when her blog continues to be the most popular, though.)
I rip on Nipper and McCaw as much as I possibly and am clearly on the side of The Organized, but Sara kills my posts from time to time when I get too nasty or when I assign identity to bloggers, etc.
Who's The Organized? Do you guys get a bobcat badge every time you come up with a new way to insult Wendy? Can I be a part of The Annoyed?
And she's 100% right. It's her deal. Unlike the NP, you can start your own blog right now, for free. Go for it. (don't hate her when her blog continues to be the most popular, though.)
Thanks Worm-tongue. It only proves my point when Worker Bee comes to Sarah's aid and tells me to go away.
Give me civil comments and I will definitely publish them -- if you are mean, I may not.
Mean against who? Is that the criteria? If I am mean against Jennfier McGovern, is that unpostable? I believe its very important to call these people out because they represent a big part of what is going wrong in Santa Barbara. They are staging the argument that its: density vs. sprawl when in fact both are happening. Her type are throwing out guilt at people to confuse the masses, when in fact she is nothing more than a paid advocate for Michael Towbes.
I will not accuse someone of actually being Jennifer Mcgovern on this blog anymore, but I think its ok to accuse someone of being in that mold.
No, Sarah, posting a comment on this blog is not like writing to an editor. It is more like writing to a semi-public forum that was set up by a group of journalism insider-types who like to bitch about the local paper. That same paper had the guts to criticize our local leaders who have catered to the development industry. Everytime I write to this "blog", I have to wait and wonder if my comments will pass through the filter known as Sarah.
(And, before you even consider going there, no, I am not nor have ever been employed by the NewsPress or it's lawyers, etc.)
Stop flattering yourself. Travis rocks!!!
12:06 pm -- worm tongue? ouch. Luckily I think Worker Bee has a thick skin. The Annoyed, however, is a good one, I'll start using that.
12:18 -- go ahead and accuse without naming names -- although I let you get away with it above and really shouldn't have. Someone's job is very different than someone's business that they own or manage or a public official that is supposed to represent your views.
4:24 pm -- there is the filter called Travis Armstrong as well, so the metaphor does work I'm also not a journalist insider type....neither are most of our readers. They truly care about the direction of our local daily and how it is going further and further away from them every day.
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