Whole Foods Proposal
Cookie Jill's Blog sent the following in about Whole Foods' plan to include a mixed use affordable housing element in their plans to come to SB. In addition, their plan looks sustainable and pedestrian friendly --- well as much as you can get for an urban area without razing buildings....
posted by Sara De la Guerra | 1/08/2007 09:33:00 PM
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58 Comments:
While creek restoration and pedestrian access are undeniable imporvements, let's re-evaluate for just a moment--they are going to raze, demolish, destroy the recently built Taco Bell, as well as the Circuit City and Citibank buildings. And I fail to understand how providing two affordable units and 10 luxury ones(when at least one is required by the city when building 10 units) qualifies this as an affordable housing project. Sustainable? Please, it's just another condo project designed for the benefit of the developers, not the community. Do we really want/need a Whole Foods here? Remember Wild Oats and Follow Your Wallet, er Heart, couldn't make it here--and now we have a couple of other luxury grocers in town, as well as Trader Joe's. So who needs another place to buy overpriced, over-trucked food...support locals instead.
Why just an element of affordable housing? The whole thing needs to be afforadble, or they should take their business elsewhere!
This is a hoax! We need to boycott this business!
While I appreciate the opportunity to read the material posted on Cookie Jill's blog (which I had seen earlier via Edhat's link), I think it may be somewhat misleading to title your post "Whole Foods is Coming to SB" since (unless I missed something) this project has yet to be approved. The postings come across as endorsements of this proposed project. I'd like to read a more balanced update which would include both the pro's & the cons. I happen to like both Lazy Acres (which is conveniently located for me) & Whole Foods (I've shopped there while in other cities & was very impressed), so I don't think I have a bias one way or the other. But it does seem obvious that the Whole Foods plan would cause increased traffic in an already congested area. The question is, would the pro's outweigh the cons? I'd need more info to decide.
Point well taken harping! Will change.
victoria 12:43:
It's not 10 luxury and 2 affordable units, it's 13 market rate condos and 2 affordables --- affordable for medium income, probably, around $100K/year income.
Probably if one can afford to shop regularly at Whole Foods, you can afford a condo on top of the market. Wonder if the parking will be like that at TJ's on de la Vina? Already, even with only Circuit City truly active there, that lot is more than half full all the time; it'll be interesting to see how they'll fit in all the cars, especially since there's no onstreet State ST. parking. And then there's the new Sandman Inn coming along a little down the street.
When people harp on "oh, no, the TRAFFIC!", I always ask them...do you take Public Transit? Do you bike? Do you Vespa?
If not, they, too, are part of the problem.
I, personally, love Whole Paycheck...I mean foods. But I can't fathom why we need ANOTHER grocery store catering to the well heeled in this corridor. Albertson's. Vons. Trader Joses. Gelsons. Ralphs. Longs. All within a mile or so. I do like the fact that, unlike the other aforementioned stores, Whole Foods is giving at least SOMETHING back to the community in terms of "open space".
Cookie Jill, I don't deny being part of the problem (even though I probably drive much less than most people since I work from home & try to do errands during non-peak hours). But being part of the problem does not mean that I don't have the right to ask for additional & more balanced info.
And re: "I can't fathom why we need ANOTHER grocery store catering to the well heeled in this corridor. Albertson's. Vons. Trader Joses. Gelsons. Ralphs. Longs. All within a mile or so." When they're so close together it makes it easier to walk from store to store & not use a car. (Kidding.) The real question & answer is not "why we need" but why we want. Apparently it's human nature (or American nature) to want a lot of choices & then be resentful or stressed out when too many are offered. From your latest post here it sounds like you are more conflicted about the Whole Foods project than it appears from your blog--I had gotten the impression you were whole(foods)-heartedly supportive of it. As I've said before I would just like to see a pro's & cons list--I think that would be helpful for the purpose of informed discussion.
Not too many people ride a bike when they load up on groceries 6 bags at a time.
The City approved the Veronica Meadows debacle, with loads of unaffordable housing units, increases in traffic on a maxed-out street, and degradation and encroachment upon the creek. Why would this project be any different?
What does the City gain for 13 unaffordable, traffic-inducing condos with a token 2 semi-affordable condos?
Valerio asked: "What does the City gain for 13 unaffordable, traffic-inducing condos with a token 2 semi-affordable condos?"
It'll get the creeksides fixed up, the one that runs behind Circuit City and the other by Hope Avenue - btw, there's a good-sized development scheduled for just around the corner, 15 S. Hope. It'll get a rundown shopping center upscaled with work by city-favored architect, Brian Cearnal of Saint Cottage fame. The WF site shows more details. Of course, it'll also get lots more traffic in that rather ugly Hitchcock/Hope section and it'll bring in more shoppers to that area from out of town and thereby boost some of the tax revenues.
As for Whole Foods itself, the discussion in Michael Pollen's book The Omnivore's Dilemma is interesting as is the chain's response .
We don't need these carpet baggers.
Santa Barbara has a superb year-round farmer's market, Trader Joes, etc., Whole Foods will be another blight on the already crowded grocery landscape. WF is overpriced, pretentios, and so not worth it (have shopped there in other cities). Support local farmers, not Whole Foods.
Whole Foods is exactly what is needed in Santa Barbara. For those who do not want it, they either do not understand it or are not buying organic food (without chemicals.) By having a much better choice then Lazy Acres, (better prices, selection, quality of service and products) there will be competition and all markets will have to step up to bring healthier choices and better service. This company gives so much back. Let's help improve the quality and service in this town. Sometimes I think that Santa Barbara residents are just use to poor quality and service.
First of all, Valerio does not realize a number of positive aspects to approving the Whole Foods architecture and site plan. Currently the site located on Upper State and Hitchcock is declining the condition of Mission Creek. By approving the plans the new development will be required to improve conditions along Mission Creek. Furthermore, in order to create a more sustainable population design we have to create denser, mixed used developments that start to decentralize our lives from big box development to more nodal style developments with neighborhoods in mind. While the Whole Foods design does not quite reach the idealized nodal development it's a big step towards that idea. Whole Foods would provide organic shopping opportunities for the entire San Roque neighborhood, which is in bikeable distance. Also, when people cook fresh regularly, they have a tendency to frequent the markets more often and thereby creating a working model for a biking lifestyle. Lastly, as for affordability, housing prices are the result of supply and demand. We currently have a shortage in housing and a very high demand. The more units brought to the market may increase availability, satisfy demands and stabilize our housing prices. It's time to look forward instead of backwards and give these ideas a chance. Personally, I've given Lazy Acres and the gas companies it takes to get there enough of my money.
I can understand the frustration over the lack of affordable housing in this city, but I guess to me, the Whole Foods Project is about Whole Foods and improving an already commercially developed piece of land. If this land was not already developed, I would be against it, but it's not, and I support improving it. As a person with severe dietary restrictions due to a medical condition- I can tell you that there are many foods and products that Whole Foods sells that are not found at the other stores in this city. Contrary to some people's opinion - it is not just a store where people with a lot of money shop. I think the city would gain by adding a store that supports community projects, the environment, and natural/organic producers. Let's face it - if Whole Foods does not redevelop this land, another company will - it is only a matter of time, and it will never include affordable housing.
Please, please bring Whole Foods to Santa Barbara. We need an organic grocery on upper State. Lazy Acres on the Mesa, Whole Foods on upper State. The selection at WF is enormous compared to other markets. As it is now I go to the farmstand, Trader Joe's, Ralph's, Gelson's, I would love to do all of my shopping in one store. You have my vote! Welcome to Santa Barbara.
The rapidity with which the paid propaganda flaks have now infiltrated these blog comments is astounding.
The city can repair the creek on its own, without a bad bargain that the adjacent land developer would pay a token amount in exchange for encroaching too close to the top of the creek channel.
Commercial development can be so much better and always has been in Santa Barbara when the City exercises some courage and tells the developers to make it better despite how they threaten to hold their breath until they turn purple if they do not get their way.
Work by "city-favored architect, Brian Cearnal of Saint Cottage fame" is nothing to brag about. He is a major tool of the carpetbaggers.
And the prior comment by Santa-Barbara-turned-into-Los-Angeles is quite presumptive to claim what I know. At least I know the difference between San Roque Creek and Mission Creek.
The City does not have to be a prostitute and think the only way to assure high standards for commercial development is to approve 13 unaffordable condos and 2 semi-affordable condos as the bad bargain.
If this store is so great, why can't they make all the units afforadble. We need to make that a requirement of all development! All affordable or nothing.
The double standard exercised by this city is appalling. One one hand, developers are required to work on creek restoration (Veronica Meadows, this project, and many more to come), while Cottage was allowed to proceed with its St, Francis demolition plans and outsized project without a single requirement to improve that neighborhood--solar lighting or undergrounding utilities, for example. I guess there's no environmental damage if there's no creek nearby. Where's the consistency?
Is this going to the year 2007 equivalent of some people going ga-ga over Whole Foods like their equivalent friends did a few years ago about a Target store out by the airport?
How many overpriced, pretentious grocery markets does Santa Barbara need?
I am all for increasing competition among the local retail grocery stores, but not to the point of making a cultish scientology experience!
WAKE UP SANTA BARBARA!!! i believe whole heartedly and without any doubt whatsoever, that WHOLE FOODS is needed, wanted, and necessary for this community! Come on people, look at how much those that do go to farmer's market's ask for organic, and sustainable farming. This isn't just about another grocery store in town, this a a new paradigm, consciousness driven company that supports us globally as well as locally. And they are willing to do SO much more for the community and planet than any of the formentioned stores, gelson's, lazy acres which is now owned my alberson's mind you...and those of us who are willing to put their money into supporting our temples in the most healthy way possible, which should be everyone, this is a complete necessity to have in this community. For heavens sake, Oxnard is getting one I think it's time for the people of santa barbara to think on a larger scale, and create this model for other stores to uplevel their businesses too. it's about education, sustainability, health, globally as well as physically. Those of us that live in SB, choose to live here because of the nature of which this community is, beautiful, tropical, relaxed and conscious to creating that which is good for our bodies minds and souls. And for those of you who call this whole paycheck, have you ever used the 365 products? They are way cheaper than anything you can find at lazy acres, and sometimes even trader joes, and they are better for you! Also, speaking as another person who has major dietary concerns, I can't find as much in any of our stores that can help support my body in the way it needs to be. And Lazy Acres isn't it, and it's not even local anymore anyway. Whole Foods also does support local farming and utilizes those in each community they are located. With so much to offer, there should be no wavering whether or not we need a Whole Foods in Santa Barbara...it's just a matter of when. AND THAT TIME IS NOW!!!!! Do something amazing for your body, health and local community as well as your planet. WHOLE FOODS!!!
Who cares about the food! It's about housing, and unless this company does more, they should just keep away.
I'd love to see whole foods come into SB
Why would anyone want to go to what is essentially a chain store, trucking things in from all over the globe, when they can buy fresh local produce at the Farmers' Market? I realize this is not an argument either for or against the project, but I do wonder....
Mike Pinto says...
Whole Foods will set us free.
Whole Foods will be the path to enlightment and the Shining Path.
Whole Foods will be the path to colonic cleansing and detoxification.
Whole Foods will pay its employees a salary of $125 thousand per year so they can afford to buy one of those condos.
Trucking things in? Doesn't sound too friendly to the environmnet does it? Do we really needed a company like this? NO!
Only $125K per year. Not enough pay to live here. and where is the immigrant housing element? No one is even talking about that and we need it.
Can somebody tell me the last time they spent any amount of time in that area of Santa Barbara? That shopping center is run-down, the buildings are mostly empty, and it is an eyesore from State Street. Don't get caught up in "what can Whole Foods do for Santa Barbara--feed the poor, shelter the homeless, turn our economy around so that everyone can buy a home under $500,000." It is not going to happen. They have a good plan to restore a sad little section of upper state street, increase business to the La Cumbre Mall (which tends to be forgotten about quite often), and restore a creek that is in need of some TLC that the city--although perfectly capable of restoring itself, has not done anything about in the last decade. Whole Foods brings no more pollution than Albertsons, or Vons who also "truck things in"-FYI we are not a self-sustaining Isle of SB.... and it will bring some needed competition to Lazy Acres, the only other organic grocery store in Santa Barbara.
Another chain store. Yippy!
There are so many issues involved here, separating some of them might be helpful. For example, if the true intention of Whole Foods is to bring a wide variety of clean, wholesome food to the greatest number of people with the least environmental impact, wouldn't it be smarter to locate where the densification is all taking place? Instead of placing it where there are many other markets, and requiring serious demolition, how about taking over the moribund downtown Von's on Chapala Street, where it would be close to the transit center, the pedestrians and condo-dwellers the city is determined to pack in. And let the City clean up the creek like it should be doing anyway.
Frankly I could care less if there is another condo, affordable or otherwise , built in Santa Barbara. Too many people live here already and it has lost it's friendly quality. Not to mention the fact that condo prices have gone down this year.
That said, I am looking forward to Whole foods. Lazy acres has become tired since being bought by the big grocery chain. The restaurant closed, the deli counter is less and less healthy and not very appetizing. Whole Foods is a booming and exciting business. Every store I have been in the employees are happy and energetic ( no longer the case at Lazy Acres) . The deli counter is excellent and THE PRICES are BETTER than Lazy acres. This is because they have more buying power.
Gelsons Ralphs etc... all use trucks to bring in their food. So that argument is specious. Ralphs grocery has no ties to Santa Barbara I for one would like to see the Ralphs on Delavina near Alamar closed permanently by the health department, as I see them putting tomatoes that fell on the ground back into their bins.
Gelsons is a LA chain and recently they must have invested in salt stocks as their deli counter items have enough salt to build Lot & his Wife!
I think we do need an energized store here and if Santa Barbara does not want it how about Goleta? I would drive there and Whole foods can take their tax revenue to Goleta too. How about that. MY only problem is that this is taking too damn long!!
Will anybody that works at Whole Foods be able to afford one of the market rate condos? If so, where will the Whole Foods employees live? Should we jam them into the two affordable condos? Or maybe we could increase our number of illegal granny flats? I'm sure there are a few more garages out there that have cars in them that we can move to the street or, even better, the front yard.
Who's going to move into the market rate condos? Current residents of Santa Barbara or new residents? How will they get here? I hope they don't have a car, because what will they do with the car once they get to Santa Barbara? We all know that the new residents will take the bus exclusively, even though they have enough money to buy a million dollar condo.
Am I the only person shaking my head and thinking, on what planet is $100K a year "medium income"???
Reality check on checkstand one, please!
I like the idea of sending this store to Goleta.
On planet SB. Anything less than $100K is chicken feed and there is no way you could qualify to buy a condo!
I believe we are in dire need of an alternate organic grocery store to Lazy Acres. I shop organic which includes items above and beyond fruits and veggies that are supplied by the farmers markets. My grocery bill at Lazy Acres has risen at least 20% since the transfer of ownership to Bristol Farms/Albertsons. I do as much of my shopping at the farmers markets and Lassens however there are some items such as meats that I can't find anywhere else and a larger store is needed.
This isn't about affordable housing its about a grocery store that is being asked to pay for Santa Barbara improvements and is doing there best to meet these requirements. If you want affordable housing your efforts are best spent on other projects that will truly meet these needs.
How about sending Whole Foods to Santa Maria, not here!
Grow your own food. We need workforce housing.
Per the anonymous comment here
1/11/2007 7:03 AM
I am so glad that the new Whole Foods will be hiring illegal immigrants. It works for Ralphs!
Like the other comment above about the obsessive Target store supporters, this definitely seems like another example of the Cult of Shopping as blinding public policy and land use decisions.
Whole Foods (WF) is not behind the open spaces, the housing, the creek improvements, or the "pedestrian access." The only real major influence they have in terms of site planning is the store size and the amount of required parking spaces: a whole lot of 'em. The major player here is Regency Centers, a Big 'ol development company out of Florida. All the good points mentioned in this discussion you can probably chalk up to the city and the "local help" (including "tool of the carpetbagger" Brian). Regency sure as hell doesn't give a damn because all they want to do is build it quick and please their prospective tennants, not the locals. When it comes to site development WF doesn't care either - I've seen their other locations, it ain't pretty. The design could be a hell of a lot better; way too much parking, no real street frontage, lack of progressive initiative, etc. All of that negative stuff you can easily chalk up to Regency and/or WF & Circuit City.
To be honest I have big problems with WF. The reason their prices are lower is because they buy from a small handful of big industrial farms (free range is most likely just a bigger pen size or a small strip of unused grass outside the coup and organic basically just means no synthetic pesticides unless its an "emergency") and a good portion of that yummy produce is grown in monocultures and/or shipped from half way around the world. Sure their good to work for, they make boatloads of cash, and yeah the food might be "better" but its not really a big change, just a "better" sounding label.
You want good food: grow it. You want less traffic: don't drive. You want cheaper housing in SB: keep dreaming.
There are some jobs Americans won't do. Nothing wrong with hiring immigrants.
How about housing instead of a store?
Does anyone know if this proposed project would involve a change in land use zoning?
It obviously is commercial now with the big stores there, but would the condos as part of it require a zoning change of big variance?
Why not just turn this into a park?
Demo the buildings and plant some grass.
Echo the comments of Bliss, Marla and SB-LA. I am new to SB; having recently moved here from Boulder, CO. I shopped the Whole Foods in Boulder for years, and I must say that comparing WF to the other grocers here is laughable - Gelsons, Vons & Ralphs? The so-called, "natural/organic foods" sections of these stores are woefully small. Lazy Acres isn't much better; the service is poor, the prices are high and at any rate they just don't offer what WF does. TJ's is great, unless you need organic produce. The Farmers Markets here are outstanding and I shop them regularly - however they cannot take the place of a full service grocery. Frankly, given the demographic and supposedly healthy, active lifestyle of Santa Barbarans, I am surprised by the opposition to WF. All we are talking about here is another choice for those of us who wish to eat healthly, organic/natural foods (without having to shop at 6 different markets!). The fact that WF is willing to improve the site is a plus - and as for afforable housing - PUH-LEEZE! This is SB. Talk to HUD about about your affordable housing issues, not Whole Foods!
Developers have figured out when they chant the mantra "Workforce Housing," city officials go into a trance and have no ability at all to do any critical thinking about a project. And they've also learned that hiring local "tools" is ultimately cheap and easy. The fair-haired Sir Brian is surely more talented than his recycled designs show. But why be creative when there's no need? All he has to do is show up in a royal purple shirt, exude that twinkly charm, and approval is virtually guaranteed. Look at the Yanonali condos, the horrific thing he designed on Olive Street, and the rabbit warren proposed at St. Francis. Can't imagine what the design for this overblown project will look like. But I bet the drawings will be real nice, showing lots of open space and not a car to be seen.
The following is from the developers in an email to me: "We hope to have City Approvals in Mid 2007 with Whole Foods opening in early 2009."
Obviously, they don't have a clue about the speed of approvals here!
Regarding above comment:
"There are some jobs Americans won't do. Nothing wrong with hiring immigrants."
Someone really tbinks local Americans would not want a job working in a grocery store?
Why would an American "not do" such a job? Are Americans too dumb, lazy, or what?
Seems like the other comments are also confirming that the mythical desire for a certain grocery story is somehow becoming more important to override the basic land planning standards that supposedly are why Santa Barbara is not like Santa Maria.
I read somewhere that Blogabarbara only was a venue to criticize the Newspress.
Here are nearly 50 comments about Santa Barbara urban planning with nothing about that newspaper turmoil.
Is the blog host failing the readers somehow?
fds - how many "Americans" do you see working in local grocery stores?
When you said too dumb and lazy, you were right.
This project's been in the works for a long time. They (the developers - Regency Centers) have been working with the city for at least the past couple years on seeking approval. Cearnal might be the "lead" architect but a majority of the actual "design" or site planning is done by either Carey Architects (on Regency's behalf) or the WF Market Architect (check the (way)above link to the whole foods site for all the players involved). Cearnal doesn't do big box retail. He's probably only responsible for the housing and the hearings.
If you like to shop or want to shop at Whole Foods that's fine (they'll give Crazy Acres a run for their money) but don't give'em any credit for "open space" or "creek improvements" because none of that is coming from them. Because these are large scale retail stores they have one major requirement: front door parking. If they were really serious about either open space or the creek they would pull the big buildings to the front along the street, eliminate the "peak volume" parking, hide the remainder, and incorporate some vegetated swales/catchment for storm water management, or even an on-site composting facility w/garden. Also, with the San Roque location, plenty of people, from SB, Noleta, and maybe even Carp, will be giving the gas companies plenty of money to get there.
What's in it for the homeless?
That is illegal aliens who are homeless and will be cashiers and grocery baggers who help customers to their cars in the dark. Others will "watch" cars in the huge lot just to be sure they are safe.
Then they will sleep at night in the vegetation along the "restored" creek corridor in the view of the market-rate condos behind the stores.
Spin that, Cearnal!!!!
Illegal aleins aren't homeless. They work. The only homeless I ever see are lazy white people. This will be a great project, but it needs more affordable units.
The City of Burbank is in the midst of a Whole Foods situation. The media has concentrated on the fact that Whole Foods and the developer want to build adjacent to horse property but the more important issue is land use and adherence to a master plan. Most of those opposed enjoy Whole Foods but do not want to sacrafice the community surrounding it for the sake of shopping convenience. 59K sq ft of supermarket on a 76K sq ft with 2 levels of subterranean parking just doesn't make sense. FYI - Whole Foods development was thwarted in the Hollywood/Franklin area - it's a popular store but it brings many difficulties with it. Check out ranchoburbank.com - thanks for your interest.
We're vacationing this week in Santa Barbara, and I am very disappointed that the Whole Foods hasn't opened yet. We love ours in Santa Monica, CA, and as a Vegan, Whole Foods offers more food options for me than any other grocer. You'll be thrilled to have Whole Foods when it opens.
One of the benefits of a big store like Whole Foods is that it provides pretty much everything you could want in terms of food in one place. Not having to visit two stores can save energy. Also, a Whole Foods on Upper State would reduce energy consumption for those of us who live in San Roque or points north, who would no longer have to drive to the Mesa for "organic" or unusual items currently available only at Lazy Acres. Furthermore, some competition for Lazy Acres would be a good thing, potentially driving down prices at least a little. Finally, Whole Foods would envigorate that block, which is currently a big waste of space. Circuit City appears to be floundering, and the computer repair business is not appropriate for a mall.
circuit city to file chapter 11.... go whole foods!!! for all of you that disagree you have no idea the quality and excellence of this fine store. I am all for better competition, its what makes the world improve. So if gelsons looses business because of it, thats great. They are a LA chain anyway, not local. lazy's will not be affected...
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