Shooting Downtown During Fiesta
Several readers raised the spectre of a shooting during Fiesta over the last few weeks....and it happened last night on the 600 block of State Street. Although I don't have all the details and do not know who shot at who, it seems the SBPD and an Oxnard man was involved. More on this later as details of the story develop. (NOTE: This post edited as more information became available)
Labels: City of Santa Barbara
posted by Sara De la Guerra | 8/04/2007 12:33:00 PM
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66 Comments:
The police shot the perp after he refused to put his gun down. It happened right in front of the Habit. I think the city should do something about these fast food places. There is too much litter and they attract a bad element.
"Oxnard gang"
A local gang?
A tourist gang?
Gee what a surprise.
They had to close all the bars early. I bet the business owners and the Chamber of Commerce are going to be pissed.
I hope H Greenspan was being sarcastic about the habit
I think we should put small white crosses to commemmorate every time someone is killed on a Santa Barbara Street. They would look real nice next to the blue line.
We've lost control of our streets and community. We can't keep pretending this is going away, maybe the politicians can, but not those of us who work and live here.
Seriously, and this in spite of any feelings one way or another about gangs, ought the Fiesta crowds be controlled more so that they are currently?
I believe the best way to protect people downtown during Fiesta is to control who goes into the area. Work with the details, but let's play a hypothetical:
-at 8pm, gates go up at the cross-streets and at the head and end of the main downtown area-- perhaps at Figueroa and at Gutierrez.
-Nobody in while officers and other law enforcement conduct sweeps through the area, including patrons of businesses, making sure no one with outstanding warrants, parole violations, weapons, etc is in the secured zone. Minors are told to go home and are escorted out, unless they are with parents.
-entry points set up at the upper and lower barriers include various personnel looking for known gang members and associates, checking and running ID, metal detectors searching for weapons.
-Except for Fire Exits, all businesses must close and keep secure rear entrances, lest they be shut down immediately for the night (or perhaps the weekend).
-Zero tolerance for any violence, threats, intimidation: you make a move, you get tossed.
-Fines for bars that keep serving patrons who continue to serve already drunk patrons (you know, when the folks are so drunk they can't walk or talk)
This is akin to a totalitarian state, not unlike Disneyland, and the security itself may be frightening to some and may put a sour taste in the mouths of the Downtown Organization. It may even be expensive (to which I say make the bars pay for all police overtime, etc during the evening hours when the stuff occurs). And there are issues at the entrances to worry about, and the old addage about 'those dudes waiting outside with guns-- who know you ain't got one.
But doesn't it seem as though more crowd control would help prevent these things from happening?
Not for nothing, but the crowd control now, quite frankly, sucks. I think some control might be helpful to the officers working, as well, who could neutralize threats before anything even happens.
What do y'all think?
the latest...
http://independent.com/news/2007/aug/04/police-release-details-state-street-shooting/
Didn't the police kill the dead person? How many go to Fiesta with a concealed gun? Why not allow everyone to have a gun? {in case the police aren't around}
The modern diet is deadly. I don't object to all junk food but fast food does leave a large polluting trash heap.
I tried to find newpress coverage. Did they cover the news? Is what they put behind the paywall after 9am from the AP?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
No, we have not lost control of our streets and community. The police were on the scene immediately and acted as they are trained to act. Let the SBPD do the job they were trained for. Stop the arm chair quarterbacking.
KEYT is reporting the dead man recently served in the military. U.S. Navy. There was a love triangle. They mention groups, not a gang, unless the military brothers are a gang. It would be worthwhile to know this 24-year-old Oxnard residents story.
2:29- I think that comment was a sarcastic reference to past comments on how mj stores are the focal point of trash and crime
Sara--- why do you let anon 5:06's obviously sarcastic and derogatory comment remain, and allow him to falsely align two unwitting citizens with his rhetorical, racist rant?
DG, here's a bit about the Oxnard resident. His name was Wilfred Turner Jr. He was in the US Navy up until just a few months ago. He lived in Niagara Falls, NY up until he enlisted with the US Navy. He has a 3 year old son back here in Lackawanna NY as well as many friends and family. He actually just left here to go back to California where he was to start a job doing security. I didn't see him as a bad person but honestly cannot speak about the life he led in California because I was not there to see it. R.I.P Cousin Will...I pray you called on our lord in your time of need and he keeps you always.
Ahhh, and this morning, on a brand-new day, the Mayor and a couple of council members were happily flipping pancakes in the park. Life is such a fiesta around here that it would never occur to a prominent person to curtail some of the festivities and engage in a little leadership. Maybe even try to find out what's going on and convey a sense of order instead of anything goes on the streets of SB.
We tend to jump to conclusions here that this is a gang matter... probably only on the basis of knowing that the dead man was from Oxnard. The story as it unfolds with coverage in the Independent does not seems to be NOT a gang crime.
Interesting that the NewsPress seems to have discovered the shooting about 24 hours after it happened (first post at 8:45pm tonight on their website under an Orwellian banner - "Tommorow's News Today" which ought to read "Last Night's News Tomorrow") while the local weekly give-away with pretensions of grandeur has been up-to-date and all over the story since early this morning.
Oh Yeah:
"Elect:
Lorreta Redd
Joan Livingston"
That is a real solution. The council we got is too liberal and unable to take action and you want even more liberal out of touch. Oh man.
Redd is an empty suit. Livingston does not own a suit to be empty in so she is just empty.
We got to do better I say Hackett and Hanson would be better.
To Tonic patrons & friends-
Last night at approximately 11:50pm, there was a shooting incident involving the Santa Barbara Police Department in front of Hamburger Habit and Urban Outfitters on the 600 block of State Street which left 1 person killed, Wilfred Turner of Oxnard. Police say Turner and two of his Oxnard friends encountered another group of men, including a 16-year-old female also from Oxnard. Authorities say Turner and one of the guys in the other group had fought before and had a history of “bad blood” between them over allegations the man was romantically involved with Turner’s wife.
The two men erupted into a fight, and others in the two groups also got involved. Santa Barbara police say two police officers tried to break up the fight and that’s when Turner pulled out a gun and pointed it at people. The two officers then pulled out their guns and fired several shots. Turner was struck and killed. Police recovered Turner’s gun and say it was loaded, and they also found a second handgun inside his friend’s truck, which he rode in. Turner recently served in the U.S. Navy stationed out of Port Hueneme.
The police were extremely quick to respond and sectioned off all of State Street in between the cross streets of Cota and Ortega. As the shots were heard by hundreds of people walking State Street and lining up to enter various clubs, people naturally scurried to find a safe haven, which included the front covering of Tonic. The natural and precautionary ripple effect of people hitting the ground amid the madness ended up-like a wave-reaching all the way to the patio of Tonic, as we quickly turned off our music and cooperated with a flurried effort by the police to secure the area. We apologize if these steps startled our patrons unnecessarily.
Our management and security teams took every step to ensure the safety of our patrons by adhering to what the police wanted us to do in those critical moments thereafter, and this included closing our front and back doors until they notified us that it was OK to let people leave. As the crime scene was located within the entertainment district, they sought to secure the outside of the club for evidence and witnesses before they welcomed an additional 500+ more people onto the streets.
We hope that you, our loyal patrons, continue to feel safe patronizing our establishment and see this extremely unfortunate situation for the anomaly that it was. Santa Barbara is almost always a safe destination, Fiesta weekend or otherwise. Our prayers go out to the family members of the involved parties.
Tonic Nightclub
I don't recall any of the media suggesting gangs were involved in the slaying on Saturday night.
How about a clarification, Sara.
yes police were on the scene right away as they were for the state street gang stabbing- they are doing the best they can
what is it about sb that is becoming so violent... week after week?
this used to be a nice place to live
If you're wondering about gangs in the military - it's a well-known problem. If gang ties were pertinent to this particular shooting, it will come out.
Here's a short article about military gangs from the website "Know Gangs".
"U.S. Army Sgt. Juwan Johnson got a hero's welcome while home on leave in June of 2004.
"Not only did I love my son - but my god - I liked the man he was becoming," his mother, Stephanie Cockrell, remembers.
But that trip home was the last time his family saw him alive.
When Johnson died, he wasn't in a war zone, he was in Germany.
"He had finished his term in Iraq," his mother said. "I talked to him the day before his death. He said, 'Mom, I'm in the process of discharging out. I'll be out in two weeks'."
On July 3, 2005, Sgt. Johnson went to a park not far from his base in Germany to be initiated into the 'Gangster Disciples,' a notorious Chicago-based street gang. He was beaten by eight other soldiers in a "jump-in" - an initiation rite common to many gangs.
"My son never spoke of joining a gang," Cockrell told CBS News correspondent Thalia Assuras.
Johnson died that night from his injuries. His son, Juwan Jr., was born five months later.
"I feel like I didn't prepare him enough to deal with this and I should have," his mother said. "But how would I have known there were gangs in the military? I could have had that talk with him."
Evidence of gang culture and gang activity in the military is increasing so much an FBI report calls it "a threat to law enforcement and national security." The signs are chilling: Marines in gang attire on Paris Island; paratroopers flashing gang hand signs at a nightclub near Ft. Bragg; infantrymen showing-off gang tattoos at Ft. Hood.
"It's obvious that many of these people do not give up their gang affiliations," said Hunter Glass, a retired police detective in Fayetteville, North Carolina, the home of Ft. Bragg and the 82nd Airborne. He monitors gang activity at the base and across the military.
"If we weren't in the middle of fighting a war, yes, I think the military would have a lot more control over this issue," Glass said. "But with a war going on, I think it's very difficult to do."
Gang activity clues are appearing in Iraq and Afghanistan, too. Gang graffiti is sprayed on blast walls – even on Humvees. Kilroy – the doodle made famous by U.S. soldiers in World War II – is here, but so is the star emblem of the Gangster Disciples.
The soldier who took photos if the graffiti told CBS News that he's been warned he's as good as dead if he ever returns to Iraq.
"We represent America – our demographics are the same – so the same problems that America contends with we often times contend with," said Colonel Gene Smith of the Army's Office of the Provost Marshal.
The U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command reported 61 gang investigations and incidents last year, compared to just 9 in 2004. But army officials point out less than 1 percent of all its criminal investigations are gang related.
"We must remember that there are a million people in the army community," Smith said, "And these small numbers are not reflective of a tremendous, pervasive, rampant problem."
The rise in gang activity coincides with the increase in recruits with records. Since 2003, 125,000 recruits with criminal histories have been granted what are known as "moral waivers" for felonies including robbery and assault.
A hidden-camera investigation by CBS Denver station KCNC found one military recruiter was quick to offer the waiver option even when asked, "Does it matter that i was in a gang or anything?" That is well within military regulations.
"You may have had some gang activity in your past and everything ... OK ... but that in itself does not disqualify...," the recruiter said.
Military regulations disqualify members of hate groups from enlisting, but there is no specific ban on members of street gangs. Sgt. Juwan Johnson's family says such a prohibition is long overdue.
"Just maybe we can save someone else's child ... somebody else's husband ... somebody else's father," his mother said. "I would have loved to have seen him with his child, I really would have -- that part is hard, that part is hard."
This month a military court sentenced two of Juwan Johnson's attackers to prison."
12:51 -- the post has been edited. I was posting on very little information the very next morning. Good catch.
As for 5:06 -- definitely sarcasm against racism...but I will delete on good measure as you are right, the two folks didn't need to be mentioned. Thanks.
Tonic Management - although I can't verify that it is really you, I will assume so due to the context.
Thanks for the comment...we appreciate hearing what you had to say.
why do we call it an "entertainment district"--the drunk zone has become a blight on our city dedicated to the consumption of mass quantities of alcohol and then having to deal with the inevitable effects on behavior of all that consumption--violence, bad judgement, agression, etc. Since when is aiding and abetting getting blitzed entertainment? Entertainment for whom?
anon 1:05 its been that entertainment district for a long time, long before it had that name. And wasnt there a shooting back in the 90's some pismo beach gang and the shooter was a midget they killed a 15 year old its not new...I think more people got hurt at the 4th when it was at leadbetter than downtown during fiesta
I lived near a base. It helps to understand what and who, in order to prevent the future outbreaks.
The police did an excellent job.
Need more activity involving more women during fiesta during night entertainment, outside of the clubs. Whenever there is events with alcohol and a ratio of 2 to 1 male to female.... its human nature that violence will erupt; too much testosterone in the air!
Even this shooting was a preexisting problem involving 2 men sharing 1 woman.
Just try walking home on a Fiesta Saturday, after not being able to get a cab. You fear for your life as groups of drunken angry men roam the streets looking to do just one more memorable Fiesta highlight or fight to have some bragging and stories to bring home; with 3 days of drinking behind them, with fading hopes of meeting some party girls, there is nothing left to do but cause trouble.
__he pulled a LOADED 45__
__AN AUTOMATIC__
too much testosterone in the air! is one thing__
planning to party with a LOADED AUTOMATIC is another__
Not every jilted lover packs an AUTOMATIC__
His friend from Port Hueneme had the second weapon__
If the reports hold up, I want to know why did he leave the service in a hurry? Did he attack or pull a gun on somebody? It was mentioned that undercover officers could have a gun.
I need to know all that lead up to the concealed AUTOMATIC being pointed at people on State Street.
Christine...I honestly wouldn't expect you to care about who he was or where he lived but let me help you with something, DO NOT always believe what you read in the papers. I'm not going to make some of the new findings public because it's a family issue but let's just say that the "idiot" didn't pull out a gun.
Several years ago a policeman doing the lower State Street beat made the following suggestions:
1. Get rid of the taxi zones at bar closing times and make the whole street open for taxi pickups to prevent clustering of too many drunk people at only a few spots.
2. Close down evening fiesta activities and give the money saved in all the extra police required and divide it up among the civic groups who lose money at the evening fiesta booths.
We stopped fireworks a few decades ago because they got so violent and unruly and trashed the beach. Then after a few years and community groups coming together for better crowd control, they started up again. This year they got edgy again. Maybe we need to rethink chronic trouble activities.
The PD should take down the gangs in the same way.
Ok, so some ex-Navy man from Oxnard comes to SB, heads down State St. with a gun in his pants, encounters some other guy from Oxnard who has been messing with his wife, they get in a fight, the guy with the gun pulls it out and starts waving it around, the police react and kill the guy, then very professionally handle the aftermath ... and this leads to people on blogs complaining about Marty Blum eating pancakes, and talking about enforcing a police state? These commenters are political opportunists, no better than Condi Rice and Donald Rumsfeld talking on 9/12/01 about what an "opportunity" the events of the day before presented them.
What to do, what to do? Santa Barbara may be "paradise" for some, but it exists in a very real world. I am with jqb. A bad situation happened, the police took care of it, and life goes on. It is unfortunate but you can't build a wall around the city, so you have to deal with things like this. This could have happened any night, not just a weekend night. It isn't something exclusive to Fiesta and it isn't the fault of city government. It is just part of life in a city.
What is good about reading all the responses on blogabarbara is how predictible many of them become after prolonged exposure, while as singular stand alone comments they first appeared to be thoughtful and genuine.
Lesson here is city council needs to start thinking independently and match what they told the voters last election that got time in office to the actions they take. They need to stop listening to the few predictible squeaky wheels on any topic who don't match their campaign promises to the rest of us.
And it is time to spend more time talking to city residents in any informal capacity they can, not in the glare of public spotlights and staff recorders. They can do this if they stay home and stop bragging about Santa Barbara and picking up meaningless rewards for inconsequential activities, while the city burns while they are gone.
Take some random residents to coffee - start with your campaign supporters list and ask for feedback on how you are doing.
And then listen carefully to what residents are saying, not just the predictible hacks who sound off and control the public spotlight.
Get out of your office. Get off your podium. Get back on the streets that elected you when you went door to door asking for our help getting you into this position. Ask us for your report card.
Sending the message "the heat is on" is good enough reason for turning Santa Barbara into a police state, until at least everyone on the planet gets this message.
Nothing wrong at all with that message either and if it takes being heavy for a while to get it out, so be it.
Sick of the message SB is for potheads and flakes. That did us no good. How on earth did that happen to this formerly fine city?
"Lesson here is city council ..."
No, the lesson is, as I said, that people like you are political opportunists. This has nothing to do with the city council -- certainly not the Santa Barbara city council. No city council policy can prevent a guy from Oxnard getting in his truck with two guns and driving to Santa Barbara. No city council policy can prevent the tremendous bad luck that, within minutes of the guy getting out of the truck, he happens to encounter the one other guy from Oxnard who has been diddling his wife.
Sheesh.
Disagreeing here, by allowing Lower State Street to be a wide open drunken late night brawl and continuing evening fiesta events that draw out of towners with bad reps IS the city council's problem.
Only the council can write the new laws, and send out different public messages. The County sent out a different IV Halloween message, and it is time for the city to rethink evening fiesta rowdiness too.
Gheesh, it is just a matter of time that Fourth of July will get ruined too.
Ony the city council can tell us how much extra police time was required for night time fiesta, and what revenue the mercado booths brought in.
What was the ratio to earn that money for these groups compared to the money spent on police creating some semblance of safety for them to enjoy making it.
Is there some ratio that becomes a clear lousy investment of city time, money and resources. Shouldn't someone at the city be at least asking? And then the city and its residents can also be part of evaluating the cost/benefit ratio of night time fiesta.
When is it ultimately a no-win proposition? And Old Spanish Days is going to have to put out more to let this happen too. They can't just dump all these extra costs on the taxpayers and then take a long walk and do it to the city all over again.
Nothing wrong with a lot of fiesta - the problems and the costs come with the evening activities and the huge numbers of police to keep the death toll down to only one this year.
It isn't just Fiesta folks. Lower State Street and Haley Street have had issues for years. An employee of the NP was knifed over 10 years ago on lower State St. for trying to stop someone from stealing a bicycle. I remember a killing in the Ortega parking structure a few years back too. I believe that also had an Oxnard connection. Stop blaming Fiesta for causing violence. You can't stop people from visiting from L.A., Oxnard, Ventura, or anywhere else. The best defense is a well trained police force who works well with the local businesses to help keep crime down.
It amazes me people can sit there with a straight face and say this guy didn't pull a gun.
The Police are so lucky they just opened fire on a random good citizen and it turned out he had a gun. Please.... That's pretty good odds considering the amount of people downtown at the time...
What drug is it that you take to remove reality from your life???
The drug some people take here is left over from the 1960's when they were on the streets yelling "kill the pigs" and claiming every single act of public safety was police brutality. That selfish mentality causes more harm, than many gangs.
Strange that the same crowd that wants to build cheap houses for our "first responders", is the same crowd that wants to knee-cap them whenever they actually do something to protect us.
That is what this 60's mentality me-generation drug does to their brains.
Thank you NewsPress - you answered my question before the city council even thought to ask it. Fiesta cost the taxpayers $200,000 in extra personnel and overtime costs, according to the NewsPress today who did think to ask.
Now, how much did the night time fiesta booths take in and what is the cost/benefit ratio of these two activities?
"Disagreeing here"
Of course you are because you have an agenda to push, come hell or high water, and this shooting provides you with an opportunity to push it.
How did one whacko claiming the guy didn't have a gun turn into a "60's mentality me-generation" that "wants to knee-cap" first responders? It's not hard to see what intellectual dishonesty and lack of basic reasoning skills has done to some anonymous brains.
To 9:50am
More skewed logic from the NP. The booths are for non-profits and I doubt if the booth rentals fill the coffers of the city. A better question to ask is what are the revenues from bed taxes and the taxes and fees to businesses plus the cost of booths etc., during Fiesta? How much money does Fiesta bring in to the local business owners who sponsor the events? How much of that translates to revenue for the city to pay for the extra police? I am sure there are more telling and accurate numbers available, if the NP were more diligent in pursuing the truth instead of fueling it's vendetta against the city. I am sure if Fiesta didn't benefit the city overall, sponsorship would drop significantly and so would number of activities during Fiesta.
Don't confuse the point here: no one is saying get rid of fiesta, only the night time fiesta mercado which brings too many people to the downtown bar district and requires too many overtime police to keep the peace.
Take that money spent on all the extra police replace what the non-profits booths take in during the evening hours, and I bet the city will get a cost/benefit bargain.
This is what I have been saying all along so don't try and win your arguments by distorting my premise.
Fiesta should not mean a free for all downtown drunken party, nor should we foot the bills for all the protection this message requires and say we get paid off in bed taxes.
Fiesta will continue to draw weekend crowds for the sane and healthy parts it offers, not the night time junk that no locals go to and only attract the out of town troublemakers.
I doubt if they are around for the childrens' parade. Keep those thugs out and make Fiesta a local and family tourist event again.
The downtown restaurant and club owners are still going to open and the celebrants are still going to go downtown and party. Are you suggesting that the city shut down these private businesses during one of their best weeks of the year? Even if the Mercados close down, there are still plenty of other places to party and do the State St. crawl. The extra police would still be needed, so what would be accomplished by shutting the Mercados down at night?
Anonymous 8/04/2007 9:14 PM.
Sorry to hear Wilfred Turner Jr. has a 3 year old son. Thank you for letting us know. The friends and family don't deserve this, no matter how it went down. This town can be cruel to out of towners who party and meet death. I would like to hear both sides of this story. We don't have a functioning daily paper of record. The town is vulnerable to misinformation. The spin is rampant. Friends and family are the only ones who know Wilfred Turner Jr. from Lackawanna NY. When did he join the Navy and come to Port Hueneme? What happened in the service? Did he leave for a security job? There are so many questions. Wilfred Turner Jr.'s story will not be told by Santa Barbarans. It does not support the industry here. It isn't a part of the gangs the locals like to go off on. Now we are only hearing rumors, they may be cleared up when the other arrests are in court. Or Turner could be their scapegoat.
I wish his family condolence, most of all his son.
Try shutting down nightime mercado and let's see it this dampens the State Street fiesta crowd scene. That is what I said, so stop changing the issues here.
The answer to everything does not always have to be a no. The status quo is not working. Time to think in new ways. And the time is now.
Can't tell me all those people are in town getting rowdy because they want to see the kiddie parade. They are here because there is a it is nighttime party invitation.
Dump the extra time for the police this requires, pay off the non-profits for lost revenue and remind the bar owners they are close to goring their own ox with this rowdy and expensive bunch.
The IV Halloween status quo changed and this is the same message evening Fiesta weekend needs to start telling too - out of town thugs, stay home.
Well, this is all very problematic. It's a real shame we've had such a rash of bad acts in town lately. You have to feel sorry for such senseless losses suffered.
As for this latest, anyone who packs a pistol to a party is looking for trouble and deserves what he gets. It was his bad choices all around, the venue just happened to be State street.
Here's a thought...How about if we equip SBs finest with a whole battery of non lethal weapons like like the sonic guns, bean bag shots, tasers, nets and my personal favorite, the sticky foam spooge gun and let it be known they'll be used liberally on troublemakers. No paperwork, just zap em, net 'em and threaten to take them to the county line where they can cool down while they walk home...where ever that is.
Bottom line is we shouldn't have to curtail our fun times just because a very few jerks ruin it for everyone through the fears of the over sensitive.
If some people had their way, we'd all be sitting like couch potatoes, in dense housing, only allowed to walk or ride a bike... while being fed SOYLENT GREEN....while under gov't video surveilence
OK - I started out as one of the "he pulled a gun and got shot - no big deal" crowd.
I just read the release from the SB Police Officers' Association and not I'm fairly certain the cops involved used excessive force, particularly when you consider the facts that:
1. Even though there were five officers present only the two SB City cops drew and fired their weapons. The two Ventura probation officers and Santa Paula cop did not.
2. The autopsy showed that the two SB cops fired 18 rounds! 10 from one cop and 8 from the other. That is totally unacceptable and excessive in a crowded downtown environment.
3. From the description it does sound like Turner was attempting to flee and was likely shot in the back at fairly close range.
I agree the Turner guy was a complete moron for bringing a loaded handgun with him (if it is found he did not have a CCW permit) and pulling it on someone, but it also seems like the cops did not yell to him to drop his weapon before firing on him.
I wouldn't be surprized to see the DA file negligent homicide charges on these two.
Link to SBPOA article is here:
http://www.sbcops.com/news/2007/08/08/shooting-investigation-continues/?linkSource=edhat.com
7:53: Wow. That speaks to the level of tension the police must be feeling out there on the streets of America's Riviera. Not quite what the brochures promise. Leave the guns home and be careful out there--police and party-goers, too.
Yep, right on schedule yelps of police brutality. Far better 18 slugs in one bad guy, than 18 innocents caught up in his bad acting. Police, you did what you had to do and thank you.
"Far better 18 slugs in one bad guy"
It's a tough call in the worst of situations...What get's me thinking is these two cops only hit him 8 times...where did the other 10 missed shots go (from five feet away?)? Maybe he was flopping around too much to get a good aim...
To 8/9/07 7:53. Would you feel better if the cops shot him once in the head and he were still dead?? Deadly force is deadly force. Until the perp drops the gun the threat still exists, plain and simple. C'mon dude, there were 30 witnesses! Do you know there are 1000s of examples of people being shot in the heart who can still fight (and pull a trigger) for over ten seconds?? Do you think the cops knew if Turner was/wsan't loaded on crack or PCP just by looking at him?? The "probably shot him in the back" comments is an editorial, not a fact. I will try to see your comments as a humanitarian who mourns the loss of life, possibly a friend.
12:21 AM - You're not correct. They did hit him more than 8 times.
That's 8 shots in the torso alone. The autopsy also showed he was hit with 4 bullets in hands/arms, 1 in the leg and 3-4 "grazing wounds". That accounts for all but 1 or 2 of the 18 rounds. That seems like a LOT of deadly force for one guy running away (even if armed).
How many people witnessed the man pulling out the gun and the police shooting? Will we get to hear from them? What about the man with a gun in his vehicle? What were they up to?
When will we hear from the toxicologist? No one is talking to the family and friends? Was Mr.Turner ever deployed to fight? Did he have PTSD? We need good investigative journalism. Is it certain he wasn't licensed for a gun? What was the secruity job? Too many unanswered questions.
investigative journalism in SB? Not gonna happen. No will, no way. Not in America's Riviera. The Indy's getting fatter and happier, the NP is a train wreck with no staff and the Sound isn't up to it. In a properly served community, there would be several follow-ups to tell this sad story of a serviceman with a troubled marriage who thought it was okay to bring loaded weapons to Fiesta and ended up dead on the street... What a story for a journalist to dig into. Probably his hometown paper will write it up, and I wonder how SB will be portrayed there.
#how SB will be portrayed there#
Not good if they look into dead or raped tourists.
Just wait as more servicemen are looking to ease their troubles.
The only time I saw a concealed weapon was years ago at a upscale bar. A beautiful working girl had it in her handbag for protection. That happens all the time I bet, but who knows. No one in this place will be the wiser. State Street looks like an old deserted mining town when it's just the buildings. The drunks are what keeps things going. No one will change a money maker.
"hit with 4 bullets in hands/arms, 1 in the leg and 3-4 "grazing wounds".
I still think this leaves at least eight .40 cal bullets ricocheting around the street.
I know it's the heat of the moment. I'm just thinking of the wisdom behind "If you shoot once, might as well empty your clip" mentatality and training.
Remember the incident where 7 or 8 po po blew over 100 rounds into an SUV with one suspect and a young child?
Things that make you go Hmmmmm...
Investigative journalism from the NP has already happened and the slate of city council candidates proves it is working.
A group of serious adults showed up at the last minute to save this city and remind voters what valuing private property rights (aka the neighborhoods) in this town is all about.
Employee unions will play no king maker role this time.
These are well funded, competent, articulate, educated, caring civically involved members from our community who could no longer watch in horrors the city council gave away our city to everyone other than those who actually live here and pay premium for the privilege.
4:44 pm -- I'm sorry -- was this post about city council? Please don't campaign on a non-city council related post!
WILFRED DIDN'T DESERVE THIS....DON'T BELEIEVE WHAT YOU HEAR. THE POLICE KILLED A WONDERFUL MAN.
Despite what happened police used deadly force to resolve a situation. If wil was jumping over a wall running away why was he shot so many damn times. I knew wil and i will truly miss him, im just sad to see so many negative comments from people who didnt know him everyone has a story and one day the truth about wil will be told. R.I.P. wil i will see you when I get there.
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