Santa Barbara Politics, Media & Culture

Wednesday, September 19, 2007

Turtles with a Bit of Drama

Thinking I might see a fan site for one of my favorite characters from HBO's Emmy-winning Entourage, I followed a link a friend sent me to The Conservative Turtle. Why do I use the word drama? Not only is it a good pun if you are an Entourage fan but it fairly well describes this new blog's assertion that conservatives are being controlled with tazers in their own pond by some kind of liberal intelligentsia conspiracy. Basically THE MAN is keeping them down...either this is some revolutionary who thinks he can turn liberals on their head or it is a very funny, sardonic astro turfing decide or join the Turtle-istas.


Blogger Trekking Left said...

The Conservative Turtle is more than simply a new blog ... it's also (to my horror) the newest addition to The Santa Barbara Daily Sound. If interested, here's my take on it ==>

9/20/2007 10:26 AM  
Blogger Citizen Stringer said...

I like the way Turtle scores pot and babes while driving around in his Hummer playing errand boy for Vinnie Chase. Isn't that what we are reading about?

Here is MY favorite excerpt from the Turtle Manifesto:

"We will no longer be intimidated. We will no longer be inhibited when our words are twisted by the slanderous name-calling left. We have come to expect that, and now we know the game. We have had enough, and we are now immune to names like “homophobic”, “sexist”, “racist”, “hater”, “right winger”, “hate monger”, “war monger”, or any and every other kind of monger. We are confident enough in our self beliefs to know that these names do not reflect reality, but are used by special interest groups in an attempt to intimidate us, and to discount what we have to say if we resist their agendas. We now consider these names badges of honor, because they show that we have successfully irritated another socialist political opportunist."

9/20/2007 10:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am of the opinion that a man who admits to being a "Liberal" or a "Progressive", unless it's to talk a hot chick into bed, probably feels comfortable wearing womens underwear.

9/20/2007 9:07 PM  
Anonymous Eckermann said...

Well Anon 9:07 PM, to paraphrase a famous liberal (who may or may not have felt comfortable in women's underwear), once again logic and reason fail conservative bloggers. Really Sara, the quality of the discourse here is rapidly declining. I would respect a reasoned (even impassioned) rational argument attacking liberal political ideology and defending conservative values. But prurient and puerile (not to mention blatantly prejudiced) ad hominem outbursts really diminish the quality of any discussion.

9/21/2007 7:56 AM  
Blogger Trekking Left said...

eckermann - I agree. And that, by the way, is the entire problem with The Turtle's column. It's all name calling and no substance.

9/21/2007 10:13 AM  
Anonymous Turtle said...

Glad we horrified y'all... that means we're making progress, and getting attention! Thanks for the plug.. By the way, your mean-spirited-natures are showing (you know, the ones that you want people to believe can only be a conservative attribute).

Surely, you must know the measure of success of any column or blog isn't what it says, it's how much attention it gets! Part of the plan. Rile 'em up by saying things that are sure to bug 'em, - lay down the fly paper and wait. Turtles love flies.

You keep falling predictably onto the "slanderous name calling left" fly-paper. After only one column, we've already been somehow associated with the KKK and now Turtle-istas?

Strange how we get the most attention (negative of course) from apparently threatened bloggers (blogabarbara, off leash public affairs) and anonymous folks.

Honestly, we had no intention of starting any blog wars, here, or liberal/conservative battles. We haven't had a bad word to say about any other blogs or columns. We do notice nobody comments on the issues addressed, but prefer nasty attacks against the source. There seems to be a nasty curiosity about where a (gasp!) conservative voice was allowed to leak out.

Look, it's a forum for conservatives, that's all, a place people can go to express or input their conservative views. Nobody is forced to read it. No need to get so offended and upset and horrified and threatened, there's room for all of us to speak our minds. The substance will follow once we get everyone's attention and get done fending off the "welcome" attacks...Patience, Wabbits, you appear all fwightened and excited - hopping all over the place looking silly. You'll never win the race that way...


9/22/2007 7:46 AM  
Anonymous Liberal Intelligentsia Conspiracy said...

Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan also get attention, but is that really the goal here?

The Turtle comment above was full of "bad word to say about any other blogs or columns"

That comment is classic Bush-Rove to accuse critics or even neutral observers of exactly of what the "conservative" is doing.

With comments and 'tudes like this, that self-declared "forum for conservatives" is going to get inbred quite quickly with no incentive for anyone but its own cabal to read it. Does Santa Barbara blogosphere now have fifth tier blogs?

9/22/2007 8:14 AM  
Anonymous can't make up this timely irony said...

REPTILE ROUNDUP: 68 turtles removed from overcrowded Alice Keck Park Memorial Gardens pond

September 22, 2007

More than 60 turtles are in need of a home after being removed from the pond at Alice Keck Park Memorial Gardens in Santa Barbara.

The occasional culling is needed to prevent the pond, also home to koi fish, from being overrun by turtles -- many of which come from people who tire of their pets and dump them there -- and the facility the city typically turns to is Turtle Dreams, a turtle and tortoise rescue center, in Montecito.

On Wednesday, owners Jeanie Vaughan and her daughter, Christi, spent four hours at the pond and came away with 68 turtles. All but four were red-eared sliders, turtles commonly sold in pet stores. The others were Pacific pond turtles.

"In the 60s seems to be the number we usually get," said Jeanie Vaughan. "Every few years it seems we're asked to cull them out. People just dump them there... etc.

9/22/2007 8:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're baiting for reactions like this, turtles, and live for it. Like Ann Coulter, who, when no one took the bait on one outrageous assertion she made about liberals said "I guess this means you all AGREE with me on that." She was bummed. She provokes, therefore she is.

9/22/2007 9:01 AM  
Anonymous sa1 said...

C'mon Yertyl, Put down the paranoid inducing substance you're smoking (or pass it on the left hand side, brah).

I read your blog and Sara's, and it seemed to me, most the name calling has been from your side. Having been assulted by the Bill O'Wrongly crowd for so long, your accusations ring pretty hollow. Most of your posts are filled with bitter hyperbole and don't need a response.

I think if you really read this blog, you'd have seen a lot of posts from many "reluctant to change".

Just like the Fox noise channel and the SBNP, I'm interested in hearing your ideas but after a few minutes, I'll probably turn back to the science channel and watch another show on evolution...

How does the Turtle feel about demoting Pluto to Kuiper belt object status? Seems like a progressive commie plot to me.

9/22/2007 9:46 AM  
Anonymous cara roco said...

Will I get paid for asserting my opinions on this blog? If not, can I ever redeem the hours spend reading others view of life while my own life is sifting away? Will this silly blog and all the others mean a thing when my final hour is approaching? Lastly, do I really care which blog tier I am reading? NO. You're all suckers!

9/22/2007 10:18 AM  
Blogger Turtle said...

Can anyone cite an actual example of any name-calling sourced from a Turtle? (comments left on the blog by others don't count) That means, what was the actual name that was called, who was it directed at, and who actually called the name?
Oh nevermind...facts don't matter to liberals..

Wait - is "liberal" a name? Sorry, we thought liberals were proud of that. Maybe not, that's why they had to change the name to "progressives". Well what do I know. Just trying to do a reality check in this pot smoke filled room.

Sticks and stones... Geez this is juvenile - I'm going to go find a first tier blog with adults. Just dropped by because I heard we were the hot topic of the day. Pretty cool.

9/22/2007 1:47 PM  
Anonymous Liberal Intelligentsia Conspiracy said...

The Liberal Intelligentsia Conspiracy worked!

Seems like that slider turtle just relocated to Turtle Dreams in Montecito with the rest of them.

Reads like Karl Rove was here again with that comment complaining that no one in the reptile pond ever called anyone else a name, all the while calling names and insults at the same time.

That alleged Hot Topic just cooled off permanently with the rain this morning.

9/22/2007 5:23 PM  
Blogger Turtle said...

So that's it? ... Just a side "trip" to Karl Rove?
Still obsessed over him? Wow. He's good!

So, no actual examples of name calling then? Didn't think so...I guess you're hoping that if you repeat the lies enough without anything to back it up, people begin to believe it? Hey it works for Al Gore...

9/22/2007 7:19 PM  
Blogger Sara De la Guerra said...

I dunno Turtle -- your opening manifesto smacks a bit of being put down like so many populist masses.

Interesting that The Sound has given you a weekly opinion piece -- co-opting blogging in general and using it at the same time.

Really though, best of luck. Your welcome for the plug ":)

9/22/2007 7:56 PM  
Anonymous Eckermann said...

Gee Turtle, for someone whose political allies control most of American government, you sound so undeservedly put upon. We liberals actually enjoy a rational argument in which the rules of evidence and laws of reason and logic are followed. Facts matter to us. But all this emotional hand wringing about being stifled by liberal political correctness just not seem to ring true. The print and video media and the blogsphere are all full of conservative ranting. Just how is your voice being stifled? Rather than making wisecracks about the underwear choices of liberals, shouldn't you really be laying out your case for conservative ideology in a systematic and logical manner? Or is the high road just to rigorous and boring?

9/22/2007 10:06 PM  
Anonymous worker bee said...

CNN reports today that commercial fishing has the loggerhead turtle population in decline.

These conservative turtles may pride themselves on being careful operators unwilling to enact needful change quickly, but they ought to read Al Gore's book on reason and watch An Inconvenient Truth if they'd care for some good advice on how to save their own species. They might not have as much time as they think.

9/23/2007 8:57 AM  
Blogger Turtle said...

Mr. Eckerman:

This is Aaron Shaw. I am the editor of The Conservative Turtle. Any posts TO DATE that go by the name "Turtle" are to be attributed to me, and none other. I have made no anonymous posts, and assume no credit or responsibility for any posts left by others. I mean to date, because I fully expect an imposter to pop up and start saying outrageous things to be attributed to the turtle. For the record, this will be my last comment here. I think I have enough substance for my next column. If any more Turtle comments turn up, they are not from me.

You ask "how is your voice being stifled?". If you mean personally, mine is not. But I represent those who are. The reason mine is not is that I will not allow myself to be intimidated. When I say that the general conservative or moderate voice, which I believe to be the majority of the populace, is stifled, I am speaking for those shy timid souls who do not wish to make waves, speak in public, or cause a confrontation, or be viewed as something they are not. I know many of these turtles personally. They are good people that just want to mind their own business, and be left alone, but their concern and fear is growing as the foundation of all they believe in, most of their culture, traditions, and institutions are under attack from the left. Public safety is an increasing problem, because of too much "tolerance" and "understanding".

It is very easy to intimidate the speech of these people, because nobody wants to be seen as a racist, homophobe, sexist, hater, war monger, whatever or even a conservative for that matter. It is guaranteed their words will be twisted to make them appear as one of these favored liberal labels. It is very easy to misquote, quote out of context, twist what a person says, or spin a slant on it that was not intended, and make them appear as one or more of the above.

These blogs have provided hard evidence of that. Not many people want to even get involved in politics, because they are too busy running their lives, and because their reputation is important in the workplace or social circles. I no longer want to be involved in it either. I got what I came for.

What I refer to is suppression and intimidation of meek personalities, which represent a large part of the populace. It is easy to control these shy turtles, who don't want to take this upon themselves, sticking their necks out in order to be shot down by vicious liberals. I stuck my neck out and look what already I have been confronted with. I most certainly have not been made to feel welcome. I see little support, only critical negative attacks and sarcasm, a general mean spiritedness, a lot of people who are in denial about who they are and what they do and can't face the truth about themselves. There is twisting of what I have said, with no factual support. There is attribution of what others have said to me. There is invention of what I have said.

Who needs that, when they are busy with careers and family? Who wants to risk their reputation to a bunch of fact twisters and slanderers? So they turn the keys to the city over to the progressives.

Now if you think I am off base or exaggerating, look at the very thing you said. You say "facts matter to us", then you continue to perpetrate the lie that the turtle has directly insulted anyone. I asked for a specific example a few comments ago. Nobody could provide one.

Instead I am accused of "making wisecracks about the underwear choices of liberals". If you would like to check your facts, you will see that this wisecrack was made by an anonymous poster at 9:07 PM, not the Turtle. Facts matter? Oh really?

This is exactly what I mean. It's the act of reacting without checking facts, of quoting out of context, twisting the intent, repeating lies until they are believed by people that don't bother to check the facts. On my blog, my article was "quoted" with key sentences replaced by dots in an effort to associate me with the KKK. Other bloggers are associating me with everything Karl Rove to Bush to Anne Coulter.
Next I will be personally blamed for the Iraq War. And this is all after just one column.

We laid out our blog in order to show examples, of exactly what intimidation we face. I have not said that I personally am intimidated, in fact I said that I would not be. I am speaking for other turtles. Is this all clear yet?

No wonder Hotchkiss would not enter the blog arena. He's a very wise man. He knows how anything he says can and will be manipulated and used against him.

Sara - thanks again for the attention. I don't see how a column in a newspaper has co-opted blogging, or even has the power to. All I see is that it has added discussion and drawn attention to your blog. You're welcome!

9/23/2007 11:36 AM  
Blogger Turtle said...

Just came back to add, no sooner than I predicted it (above) I went to our blog to find "Worker Bee" (also above) is indeed making an attempt to blame us for the Iraq War.

I repeat the facts for those with amnesia:
The Iraq War Resolution passed the House on October 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133, and the Senate on October 11 by a vote of 77-23. Amongst the yes's are Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, (who voted for it, before he voted against it). Just how do we blame this on the conservative movement again?

I'm leaving for sure now, further response on our blog.

9/23/2007 3:55 PM  
Anonymous wineguy said...

"The Iraq War Resolution passed the House on October 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133, and the Senate on October 11 by a vote of 77-23. Amongst the yes's are Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, (who voted for it, before he voted against it). Just how do we blame this on the conservative movement again?"

Because, in case you have forgotten, it was the Conservative government which provided the inaccurate intelligence (putting the matter kindly) on which those votes were based.

9/23/2007 5:05 PM  
Anonymous worker bee said...

Turtle's little chip is so easy to knock off. I didn't accuse turtle of anything. I asked if he is a Republican and I pointed out that a slow moving turtle wouldn't be the sort to go running into a war.

In essence, his turtle moniker doesn't well illustrate what he perceives as the "silent majority", and absolutely doesn't jibe with the current brand of so called compassionate conservative Republicans in power. To put it another way, his shtick is not particularly clever. But it does apparently jibe with the meek and slow witted character he ascribes to his ilk. (He's told us his kind is normally too frightened to speak out and take a stand, right?)

As for liberals who vote for war, sorry, but that's not my crowd. I'm of the stripe that vote for the unelectable kind - the kind that wouldn't go to war. I'm well aware of the Democrat's voting record on the subject and am none too impressed.

And I'm happy to have an honest discussion with anyone who is conservative. However, to whine as if the poor downtrodden conservatives have been disenfranchised as of late is resoundingly ridiculous and insulting. You've had the presidency for seven years and both houses until recently. You've got the Supreme Court at least through end of Bush's term. Do you really think social conservatives are gasping for breath? I think not.

9/23/2007 5:14 PM  
Anonymous Eckermann said...

Turtle, I am honored and appreciate the time and care you dedicated to respond to me. Thank you. I agree that many people do not feel empowered to contribute to and participate in democracy. I disagree with you with respect to whether liberal or conservative views are pushing the national agenda. The fact that private American contractors are making millions of dollars in Iraq and New Orleans tells me that free market capitalism is alive and well in this modern age. Despite our differences in perspective, I respect your courage and your right to express your views and I believe (as Hegel would) that the truth lies somewhere in the synthesis of the two. I am sorry that you feel that you have been chased off this blog by intolerance and vitriol. I might just hit the Turtle blog to check out your arguments. I apologize for attributing the "women's underwear" reference to you. It just seems to me that conservatives in general like to drive almost any point home by accusing someone of being homosexual. I really don't know what that has to do with anything. Thanks again for taking the time to respond as such length. Time is precious and I appreciated that you spent the time.

9/23/2007 6:10 PM  
Blogger Turtle said...

I really really wanted to leave this, but I feel I've finally encountered some liberals with some civility and intelligence. When the topics have subsided, I will stay on my own turf, unless invited.

Wineguy, the intelligence was provided by a nonpolitical entity, the CIA and intelligence sources from many other nations. I dont' pretend to be an expert on where the intelligence came from, but it is simplistic and paranoid to think that Bush, Karl Rove and General Powell sat in a room and made this stuff up and said "Hey let's pull a fast one on the American people!(snicker snicker)"
I believe they were convinced just as many others, that the intelligence was accurate and did what they thought needed to be done with the information.

I don't know how you can ascribe a "conservative" or "liberal" label to a non-political entity - that would be like saying we have a conservative military or police force.

Worker Bee-

I apologize for accusing you of accusing me, I feel a bit like Jackie Chan today taking on a room full of attackers, and just a little jumpy.. I will continue the conversation on our blog, since you brought it there, but as for what you say about Conservatives in power, those are not the conservatives I refer to. I am talking about conservatives with a little "c". I refer to the ones that have no power and don't wish any. The average Joe type conservatives. Those are turtles. The ones in power are more likely Republicans, which we are not.

We were referring initially to local politics and trying to focus on that, since we have a very liberal council and Mayor. Locally, conservatives are not in power.

Mr. Eckermann

You are quite welcome, it is always a pleasure to talk to someone civil and sensible, intelligent and rational, regardless of their political persuasion.

I agree with you also that liberal or conservative views are not pushing the national agenda, perhaps not enough. I am quite sure that the pursuit of profit and corporate interests are heavily involved. I think we can agree, and I am more convinced of that than ever after seeing Bush's pathetic do nothing second term.

However, lets' be reasonable. Yes, of course American contractors are making millions of dollars in Iraq and New Orleans, are they supposed to do it for free? If so, I doubt you would find a company with the capability and economic status to take on these rebuilding projects.

In Iraq they are building infrastructure! That means power plants, bridges, roads, schools, water systems, sewer systems, who knows...It's not exactly volunteer work that can be taken on by the Peace Corps. And it's not like they are stealing the money and nothing good comes of it. The people of Iraq benefit, and so do our relations with them.

I seriously doubt they are over there directing the military where to bomb so they can rebuild something and make big bucks!

I don't believe they are entirely bad guys. Making money is not a crime, just because there is profit does not mean there was some crazy conspiracy to plan this all so corporations can make money. I mean did Bush really plan Katrina? That is where I draw the line between paranoid fantasy and reality.

Apology accepted, and thank you for offering it, I apologize for the more extreme intolerant conservatives, just as you might for the more extreme liberals, I am sure they represent neither of us.

9/23/2007 8:48 PM  
Anonymous Teddy said...

This is the first I've read any of Conservative Turtle. Congrats for a new endeavor. I come from old world conservatives. I'm not prepared to say what CT is up to is "conservative" yet, I'll keep checking. I thank Jerry Falwell for helping me move on.

If this new blog is to be an above the belt joust, perhaps it's just a matter of time until they find a groove. I'm looking for fact based wit and scientific arguments.

9/24/2007 9:03 AM  
Blogger MCConfrontation said...

Turtles perspective, I believe, is/was the same as mine when I decided to start my local conservative blog. It's not that conservatives are in the minority nationwide; it's that conservatives are in the minority here. I think that's what the Turtles wanted to accomplish, a foothold for a conservative voice in this local vacuum of liberalism. Kudos for your chutzpah, and for attaching your name to it Aaron. Because as far as the intimidation factor, well, yes that is the reason I do not attach my name to my posts and comments. It's far too easy in this information age for someone to acquire contact info about people posting comments that the psycho-lib feels threatened by. I for one will not be putting my family in any kind of jeopardy by naming myself in the blogosphere, hence I am merely MC Confrontation, or MCC. This speaks to what Aaron is saying about the intimidation factor.

As for the intelligence leading up to the war, uh, George Tenet was Bill Clinton's DCI and was kept on by GWB after the transition. The CIA is non-partisan. Wineguy's statement points to the fact that he knows not what he is talking about, and only that he wishes to place blame on the current administration, which can't get anything right if you ask the left. READ: North Korea agrees to give up its nuclear program and NOT A WHIFF of ithere or anywhere else. Apparently it hurts too much to say that GWB has done ANYTHING right.

9/24/2007 11:00 AM  
Anonymous wineguy said...

Well I don't want to get into a pissing contest here. If you think the war was a fine idea and justified by the facts that's fine. But the truth is this administration didn't like the intelligence emerging from the CIA, so they set up their own DOD intelligence office to give them the story they wanted to hear. Then they carried those tales around to the Congress and the news, and whipped up this huge frenzy about Iraqi WMD and how we had to attach RIGHT NOW.

If your memory is faulty on this you may wish to consult some of the statements that have come from Wolfowitz about how they decided to go with the WMD story in the first place.

9/25/2007 8:39 AM  
Anonymous Turtle said...

"It's not that conservatives are in the minority nationwide; it's that conservatives are in the minority here. I think that's what the Turtles wanted to accomplish, a foothold for a conservative voice in this local vacuum of liberalism."

You are correct sir! Finally someone gets it.

This is Aaron Shaw and we approve of this message. Thanks for the backup McC.

And with that, we will be signing out of here, and remaining in our own blogpond, since our new column is ready, about our fun with blogging!

Thank you Sara.

9/25/2007 12:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How often will the Conservative Turtle post? I've been looking forward to the discussions.

9/26/2007 4:33 PM  

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