WWHT? Michael Bennett Wants to Create Disneyland in Old Town
Perhaps the next Political Play of the Week could be an occasional series called What Was He or She Thinking?
The Pacific Coast Business Times reported today that Goleta Council Member Michael Bennett told his buddies at the Chamber of Commerce (or was it their PAC? -- I can't tell the difference) that he would like to create a "semblance of Disneyland" in Old Town Goleta.
Bennett thinks he can create a picture perfect Mayberry with what I guess is more hotels in Old Town as he was very excited at the Chamber/PAC meeting about the success of the new Hampton Inn and condo project. That's all well and good as it is a good enough example of a mixed-use project along a transporation corridor (although it has already increased traffic horribly -- are these folks using the bus? or walking?) -- but do we really want Orange County-style planning in Old Town?
The problem with Bennett's statement is twofold. First, we don't need to look to Orange County for ideas -- Old Town's character can be enhanced and improved as it is right now, it doesn't need to copy our mega-neighbors to the south. Second, related to Bennett's next campaign, he just wrote his opponent's get-out-the-vote mail piece! What was he thinking?
The Pacific Coast Business Times reported today that Goleta Council Member Michael Bennett told his buddies at the Chamber of Commerce (or was it their PAC? -- I can't tell the difference) that he would like to create a "semblance of Disneyland" in Old Town Goleta.
Bennett thinks he can create a picture perfect Mayberry with what I guess is more hotels in Old Town as he was very excited at the Chamber/PAC meeting about the success of the new Hampton Inn and condo project. That's all well and good as it is a good enough example of a mixed-use project along a transporation corridor (although it has already increased traffic horribly -- are these folks using the bus? or walking?) -- but do we really want Orange County-style planning in Old Town?
The problem with Bennett's statement is twofold. First, we don't need to look to Orange County for ideas -- Old Town's character can be enhanced and improved as it is right now, it doesn't need to copy our mega-neighbors to the south. Second, related to Bennett's next campaign, he just wrote his opponent's get-out-the-vote mail piece! What was he thinking?
Labels: Goleta City Council, Old Town
posted by Sara De la Guerra | 9/10/2007 09:26:00 PM
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39 Comments:
Some people just can't win with you.
The Disney "model" was created by a visionary. Walt Disney should not be confused with the negative connotation of "Orange County" (i.e., rampant, high-density development).
I can't read Michael Bennett's mind, but the sense I get from him is that he's looking to create a quaint, attractive and commercially viable city-center that brings a vibrant atmosphere to the core of Goleta.
What in the heck is wrong with that?!
And if you stop to think about it (something that might be a new and refreshing experience for you)...Disneyland, created in the mid-1950's, was progressive in that people WALK and/or use MASS TRANSIT during their visit to a fantasy-land that is almost never recreated in real life.
Again...what the heck is wrong with that?!
Agreed. The Disney model was created by a visionary that saw millions of people going through his theme park. I'm not sure how poeple got there Bill but the mass transit and walking once you do is pretty cool. And, I'm not so sure Disneyland isn't like The OC considering it's mega expansion across the street over the last few years.
Old Town is not a place for tourists -- it is a place for vibrant, commercially viable city center (I agree with you!) but that does not look like Disneyland does it? It looks like a place where people walk to work, shop and interact with each other -- it would be so easy to create in a revitalized Old Town. To his credit, this is probably what Bennett means if he were speaking my language -- but something tells me at the same time that he doesn't mind The OC model.
I had a roomie in college that was from a foreign country -- whenever asked where he was from, he said "Disneyland!". He was certainly joking but also understood that Disneyland is an island in Orange County -- so much the same but psychologically seperate from reality.
Anything is better than what's out there now. Let's be honest - the previous CC came into office with one of their goals (particularly Johny) to revitalize and beautify Old Town. They had four years and did absolutely nothing but chase Yardi's project away, let the old RP Richards complex sit dormant and the rest exist as a rundown area without identity. It looks similar to some of Ventura's "land that time forgot".
Now I'm no fan of creating a circus or Disneyland or anything of the sort but at least Mike is getting a discussion going!
Where's the proof that the new hotel has increased traffic in Old Town? Traffic appears to be the same to me with just an additional signal at the hotel entrance. In fact I have yet to see any vehicles leave the hotel or condo corridor. Before we jump to conclusions about increased traffic in Old Town we should find data that supports that theory.
The traffic in Old Town would be relieved if the missing link in Calle Real, between Patterson and the In-n-Out, could be completed.
But PANA will never allow that. They don't care much about Old Town.
I really miss Pino's. That is the problem with redevelopment and upgrades... they destroy the character of the place. Pino's was driven out by a silly rent increase by a landlord who wanted a few bucks more, because of visions of a chic, boutique future.
If Old Town turns into Hampton Inn's, Starbucks, and CPK's, that will be a disaster. I'd rather it be Oaxaca!
A distinction without a difference.
Old Town should be what it is: a place for the residents and locals to shop at locally run businesses and eateries. It has plenty of character already and just needs to be cleaned up. What clean=up has happened to date--painting buildings and replacing some signs, street sweeping, is only a start. Reducing the visual blight of many illegal signs would also go a long way for enhancing the area.
The City needs to make Hollister truly walkable and safe for pedestrians and bicyclists, this is the one part of making it like Disneyland, I would agree with. May be hard to do with the amount of traffic that travels on Hollister.
By the way, regarding the Calle Real extension, PANA didn't kill it as one correspondent suggests--the cost of it and lack of political will did.
And maybe they will redesign the Goleta Pier into another Stearns Wharf, Santa Barbara's touch of Disneyland. (Of course, the sphere of influence will have to be extended to get jurisdiction over the pier.)
If it's good enough for Santa Barbara, surely it's good enough for Goleta!
If they can somehow install whatever machines Disney uses to pump fake popcorn and cotton candy smells out of the ground like they do on Main Street USA then I would be all for it. I want one of those things for my house!
We're already Adobe Disneyland.
However, when certain people say "Disneyland", what they really mean is "no poor people seen. no scary brown people seen. trinkets made from China sold instead of home/handmade local merchandise."
I think we need to stick to reality instead of white washing the problems.
Wouldn't Disneylandification be an improvement for Goleta? Bring it on!
Old Town has a lot of potential. What it needs is a solid set of businesses that will draw people. I suggest that a decent sporting goods store, a few clothing shops (one for men's fashions, one for women's fashions, and a trendy one for teenagers and young adults), three or four coffee shops/cafes with on-street or patio seating, a bookstore with adequate space to sit in read, a few funky little specialty shops, improved parking, and wider sidewalks all added to the restaurants and the market already there would draw local people away from downtown Santa Barbara to stroll, shop, and eat. Bennet's analogy was unfortunate, but the idea to revitalize Old Town and make a place people want to spend an leisurely afternoon is a good idea.
I agree that Pino's was a big loss. As was Alex's and Spike's.
SB city council and BOS did their best on several occassions to torpedo and sink a great blue collar business with old roots:
Aerospacelines/Tracor/Lucas/SB Aerospace
These guys employed hundreds (300-500) of workers that supported the local Old Town businesses. Just ask them.
Wendy McCaw was instrumental in sticking in the final knife in the back. She wanted the hangers so she didn't have to park her (and her friends like Oprah)private, oh so eco friendly private jets out of the sun.
The SBNP at the time looked the other way and only wrote negative articles throughout the many travails at that facility.
So excuse me if I don't give a crap what Wendy has done to the SBNP or the reporters who didn't stick up for the workers in this town.
I vote for the Mayberry redesign with Andy and Barney keeping the riff raff in line...
Bennett's the NEW BARNWELL!!
If you want a taste of what Bennett is proposing, just check out the Fairview center across the 101 from Old Town. Most of my friends have been calling the pseudo lemon packing plant motif "Toontown" since it's renovation.
On another note, as long as the poorest, least english proficient residents of Goleta live adjacent to the Old Town area, you will never get rid of the $0.99 store/taquerias theme we have now. They are the customers of this corridor, while the rest of us head out to Costco...
No-one said PANA killed the Calle Real extension.
But overcoming PANA is why political will is needed for the Calle Real extension.
Just make sure Ratatouille is the chief chef in the new old town!
If Goleta "olde town" should become as Eckermann suggests, I go there regularly. I've given up on State Street (that once great street) and there is just nowhere genuine in this area anymore except, possibly downtown Carpinteria but I haven't been there for a while. Planting some trees, too, would help.
Instead of redeveloping old town we've succumb to the big box phenomena. What could have been a catalyst to revitalizing old town, the movie theater, is now sucking life from it. Camino Real Shopping should have never been built, but everybody needed their Costco fix so now you have to live with the consequences. The irony about Disneyland is that people pay to relive what main street use to be like. Now that we've lost most of our old towns we cry about how we got here. Instead of blaming politicians start blaming yourself. It is our insatiable desire for automobiles that got us here and until we change our habits the automobile not people will always prevail.
That had to be an unfortunate comparison, and hopefully it wasn't indicative of his true feelings for creating something entirely different from what exists.
I remember years ago when CNN was, for some odd reason, hosting a documentary that got to talking about how architecture can affect other factors in a neighborhood. One of the people on the documentary noted strip-malls as being bad for neighborhoods and cities. He said that when people take no pride over the actual look and feel of their city, they can lose attachment with the area itself and with the businesses operating there.
Obviously there are many factors, more important ones, that affect decisions and behavior. But I can't help but think that the look of a commercial center can have some affect on civic pride.
Though I shake my head, and sometimes a fist, at the poor look and feel of more recent projects all over Santa Barbara (Paseo Nuevo and many other buildings among them), I know that people who live in the City take pride in the fact that it is such a nice place. Whether rich or poor, and no matter the ethnicity, when people who live in Santa Barbara talk to people who live elsewhere, they show that pride in the way they talk about the City. And the beauty, natural or man-made, is one of the top reasons why this is the case.
That being said, if Goleta leaders want to make Old Town into something entirely different, they ought to make sure it's something the people like. Wholesale redesign of the neighborhood might not go over well with either the residents living there, or those outside of it. Unless the people take pride in this part of their community, they may not care what happens to it. And they won't like the waste of time and money, either.
On the traffic versus pedestrian-friendly issue, maybe someone can clear this for us. From State and Las Positas/San Roque and all the way to Hollister at Storke, the 'classic grid pattern' of streets is non-existent, and commercial development confined to a single street and surrounded by neighborhoods on both sides. Old Town shares these characteristics. Is it true to say that this type of development and street layout only make traffic worse? Can Old Town reduce traffic at all? Would redevelopment and 'enhancement', such as has been suggested, of the area make things worse?
I agree with 1:33pm on the Fairview redesign. It looks horrible, and incredibly fake. The News-Press, as an opponent of Santa Barbara's architectural guidelines, has often quoted Goleta residents and officials who spoke of a desire to be 'anything but' Santa Barbara. I hope it wasn't this negative motivation that prompted the design there. I haven't heard anyone say they actually like the design. But I'm sure there are people out there who do.
Wendy does indeed park her plane in a hanger but Oprah leaves her plane on the tarmac.
I'm happy to cut Mr. Bennett some slack for this comment. I love hearing the clatter and spirit of this Old Town Debate. I sat in on many of the meetings from the last Old Town debate and felt a lot of hope for wide, level sidewalks, clear bikeways, chairs and tables out in front of cafes, and a sense of PLACE. I think that the sense of PLACE is what captured Benett's attention. As it is now, it's more of a dangerous driving, walking, and cycling challenge.
My personal model for Old Town is Linden Avenue. I walked Linden with a friend who works in Carp and it felt like "the happiest place on Earth." Most of the businesses are local and not pods from the multinationals.
Give me an Old Town with the current business owners but just a few innovations like reverse parallel parking, two lanes, wide sidewalks, and a some trees. My family would hang out there all the time.
This vision makes my heart sing with the same gusto as Pino.
My best to the current committee -- bring on the walkable Old Town.
Good exchange, fellow BlogaBarbarians!
Don Lubach
A big issue west of Santa Barbara has always been the scarcity of East-West streets. Cathedral Oaks, 101, and Hollister, and that is it. Bikes get the Obern trail, which is great... that was once supposed to be another East-West car route.
One reason: most of the neighborhoods off Hollister and between Cathedral Oaks and Calle Real don't want want a new East-West thru route... nobody wants more traffic in their neighborhood. Would be nice if PANA could support a Calle Real completion for the greater good.
So Hollister carries a lot of traffic, particularly in Old Town. Unlike State Street, where Chapala, Anacapa, Santa Barbara, and De la Vina help carry traffic, there is nothing other than Hollister in Goleta in the business area. Well, a few people use loop around Mandarin/Nectarine/Alondra/Armitos to evade Old Town, but you have to be a real insider.
I used to dream of *lowering* Hollister by 20 feet or so, and then having steel/see-through bridges for the cross-streets, and an `apron' on the north and south sides of the lowered road for local traffic. But goodness, during a heavy rain some amazing pumps would be needed to keep the lowered Hollister dry... Old Town was part of the Slough and the Slough reasserts itself during heavy rain.
About the only thing that would help is building a couple of big parking structures and then eliminating on-street parking, to get space for a nice plaza-like sidewalk and bike lanes. But the small business folks totally hated that idea... they like the idea of cars being able to pull up right in front of their businesses. Personally, when I drive to Old Town I hate parking on Hollister because I'm afraid of opening my car door and wacking a bicyclist. I scoot over and exit the passenger side. I'd rather just park off Hollister.
As for the style... I'd go totally to Norte Mexicano. Chilitown would be great. Not Mexican Colonial but really Mexican. Why not?
I refer to the style of the Fairview shopping center do-over as `Paso Robles'.
The central issue, "like the question of nation building in Iraq or elsewhere," is whether you can even "plan" a city, a state, or a nation. The closest approach to a truly successful planned city document is the old and enduring Spanish 'Plan of the Indies' from the sixteenth century, which makes reference, and in great detail, to the relationship between the Pueblo, Church, and Military. This is what "developed" the organizational framework and principles around most of the New World's cities and villages. Santa Barbara reflects many of early yet enduring set of ideas. And Santa Barbara is partially a failure as a result of its constant battle with the upstart 'American' City plan. It's Plaza de la Guerra vs State Street.
Brazilia, Corbusier, Disney, --all of these approaches reflect modern failures in my opinion. All of it is a failure that arises out of the hubris of modernity. It may very well be that a charming city reflects nothing more than just the accretionary dimensions of daily life and the "planned" is a illusion. In any case, it takes more than just picking a style whether 'Paso Robles' or 'Linden Avenue.' After all, in the final analysis, a city is without what the people are within. And that might be a frightening thought.
Carpinteria is the best run city in the County. The council majority are fiscal conservatives. Notice the difference?
Give me a break. Old Town looks like Iraq. It is what Doreen Farr and her boss Gail Marshall envisioned for Goleta and why we became a city. So Bennett gets a bit carried away - at least he wants to clean it up. It is embarassing.
The dig into Marshall and Farr is inaccurate... the Old Town Revitalization plan predates both, although it never got anywhere, primarily because the County bureaucracy is intrinsically inept.
It is nice that Bennett wants to get improvements made.
Goleta Old Town is nothing like Iraq... no IEDs, terrorists, or Armies are in Goleta Old Town. No Shiites or Sunnis. What an inaccurate and embarassing analogy.
I agree about Carpinteria. They are skinflints.
Dined in Old Town last night and had an amazing meal at Goleta Sushi. Fantastic. Go there. We pulled up in front and actually couldn't open the passenger door because of the non-standard curb. We had to re-park.
I hope we can just start with the basics, like off-hollister parking and level sidewalks. We can get fancier later.
Even though there's a lot NOT to like about Old Town (I'd love to actually ride on the bulldozer that takes down some of the ugly structures)...there are many things I love about it.
Don Lubach
>>>>Parking gargares, extending Calle Real, Don Lubachs car door experience<<<< already too much focus on cars.
BTW Disneyland is the place where just about everyone first learns to drive the single occcupancy car.
The first thing that needs to be resolved is transportation. I'd suggest removeing the cars and actually get Goleta to work with Santa Barbara and install a really good MTD transit system (light rail?) from Stearns Wharf to Costco.
Saying we focus too much on cars is like saying life on earth is too concerned about oxygen.
The point of extending Calle Real is to *get cars out of Goleta Old Town*.
The point of parking garages off Hollister is to *get cars off the street in Goleta Old Town*.
Getting the cars out permits a focus on non-cars. State Street has a natural advantage because they elimnated on-street parking and there are parallel sidestreets, which don't exist in Goleta Old Town.
Absolutely, lets improve MTD from Carp to Costco. BTW, there were supposed to be shuttles on a loop from Costco to Old Town, as part of the Camino Real Marketplace. They sure fooled us on that one.
There may be other advantages to the proposed extention of Calle Real but I don't get how it will "get cars out of Goleta Old Town." If I wanted to avoid Old Towne I would use HWY 101.
The "Grid" is superior to arterials, however the focus is still on cars and pavement. The only way you can "get cars out" of anywhere is to put something else in, such as transit. Otherwise you're just shifting the problem elsewhere.
If we continue to first focus on "cars," then that will be what you will have....cars. UCSB, Cottage Hospital (multiple locations), City de SB, City of Goleta, SBCC, The Sisters @ St. Vincients, etc all frame developements around the "car" and think of transit as an afterthought.
Transit will never get a serious foothold and the Mayberry / Disneyland dream will end up like a cross between Magic Mountain and Ascot Raceway.
I would use dowtown Santa Barbara as a bad example rather than a good example. SB has focused way to heavy on cars and parking garages. To do so it has burdened the orginal residential streets with high-speed one way traffic and a hostile atmosphere of ninja motorcycle racers, hip hop boom boxers, oldsters on Harleys and Hotrods. Not especially considerate types that remind me of Mayberry.
donald de...
sorry, I never experience the ninjas, boom boxers, Harleys and Hotrods. Particularly when I stroll down State Street.
It is simply a fact that on-street parking is not allowed on State Street, between about Victoria and the 101, perhaps farther. And that improves the ambience a lot. Goleta Old Town would be improved if on-street parking could be eliminated on Hollister, but the business folks oppose it.
Providing some parking off street seems like a win-win. I'm personally tired of impractical solutions that have screwed Old Town for so long. I think the impractical solutions may be just a beard for those who want to keep Old Town screwed. Seemed that way during the 10+ years of the Old Town revitalization plan.
And get the Camino Real Marketplace/Old Town transit loop going. It was promised when CRM was approved. Probably the money got spent on bike bridges for the elite in Montecito, or on extra street work near the Demery's homes, but there is always a chance the CRM money got squirreled away and still can be used.
Donaldo, Why always the curmudgeonly anti car rehtoric? Mass transit is impractical and too expensive for this area.
I don't think any of the "smart growth" group think is applicable or wanted here either.
Old Town needs a definite facelift that can only come from the property owners and new buisness plans for the existing blocks. There has to be a reason to go there. For the majority of the community there is none. There has to be a transformation of what Old Town is for. Not just a low rent district whith lipstick.
The new hotel and condos stick out like a sore thumb and have no design elements that project an "Old Towny" feel.
COG needs to avoid that facade like character of Vegas, Disneyland and half of what they build down south.
Unfortunately, most of those buildings should be torn down and replaced with classic, coordinated yet still ecletic designs. Most of the owner are sitting on fat equity and should be "encouraged" to reinvest in their property laest the COG impose much stricter ordinances to get the crap cleaned up. That goes for the back neighborhoods too.
Anon 9/16 9:22 P.M. sa1 (at bottom)
I have no idea why you aren't experiencing the bad behaviors. Most municipalities are very busy responding to these public nuisances....hence the requests for bumps, humps, chicanes, round-a-bouts, bulb-outs, stop signs, narrowing, sound walls etc. Some judges actually sentence boomboxers to listening to hours of classical music as punishment.
Bad public behavior is fairly prevalent and seemingly, increasing and culturally acceptable these days. Perhaps you accept these bad public behaviors as they are being normalized. My point is that when you leave your home shouldn't you be on your best and most considerate behavior? I forgot to include all those monster trucks often with clanky diesel engines and really stinky exhausts roaring about with oversized tires are inconsiderate as well.
I don't mind removing parking from Goleta Old Town but what to put in its place is the question...The streetscape of Coast Village Road or something like it is a much better business model than the current. Old Town for the most part is a tear down, a new model should replace it. Old Town could be one of those "Smart Growth" projects and it should be it's own Village with ownership rather than the drive through model.
The Camino Real Marketplace/Old town transit loop disappointment probably has little to do about the "elite" or street work near official's homes. If you'll notice all projects are really heavy on providing the ordinary masses with expensive pavement, concrete and cover for the car and too little on framing and stucco for housing and more efficient transportation.
sa1 >>>>>>
Why. Because cars degrade adjacent properties and no one really likes cars....thats why we all want to live on a cul-de-sac while exporting out impacts elsewhere.
Mass transit works well all over the planet and it can work here too as well when the resources are used to fund transit projects rather than for the subsidizing of cars.
"No Growth" and "group think" appears to be the origin of your opinion. Apparently you "group think" that we don't need "smart growth."
So which is it for you is Old Town in need of a facelift or is it a teardown with serious redevelopment needs. It's best to do something really different and efficient while trying to keep the local ideal of "quaint and charm."
Vegas or Disneyland are grotesque examples. An ideal and quaint example would be Monrovia California. Worldwide there are many better examples but the economic model will be difficult with todays building costs and demanding housing needs.
In the end maybe this will all be settled when the much reproted land-ice melts and sea levels rise to reclaim this wetland. Now there's a "no growth strategy" for you.
donaldo...
I simply don't see the bad behavior enough to feel disturbed by it. About the worst I experience are un-muffled motorbikes.
Coast Village road is not as important a thoroughfare as Hollister is. Lots of vehicles right now turn on Pine, Nectarine, Kellogg, Magnolia, Rutherford, Orange, etc, so I don't think the mid-street center lane can be eliminated like on CV. Maybe when Fowler and Ekwill are completed then turning from/to Hollister can be legitimately restricted in favor of reaching the south side backstreets from Fairview and Kellogg.
I don't see Old Town as a tear down at all. That is silly South Coast fru-fru snobbiness. Lots of neighborhoods in LA look more or less like Old Town. The Old Town revitalization plan wanted to make Old Town into `Paso Robles' style. Spanish speakers were not at all involved... I do-over to make Old Town brightly colored and vibrant like Mexico would be wonderful. No snobby Santa Barbarization.
anon 8:41 P.
To not notice the aural asaults you must be insulated in a "fru fru" environment.
The traffic circulation you describe is accurate only if there is a continuation of an auto-centric re-developement of goleta Old Town.
Coast Village is extremely important from the auto-centrist point of view. Since CV rd. is adjacent to 4 - lane Hwy 101. Goleta Hwy 101 has 3 lanes adjacent to Old Town so perhaps it is a wash.
Again, my point is to shift away from those "auto centric" mentalities that continually consume communities and degrade properties.
Old Town should not care about those adjacent suburban neighborhoods along disaterous Hollister anymore than those that reside in more upscale developments on East Valley Rd.
It's all classest, elitest or "fru fru" as you describe it. Old Town Goleta should be for people who want to reside and do business in Old Town and of course venture out but not abuse adjacent neigbhorhoods. Old Town needs housing, business open space, bike lanes, wide sidewalks and perhaps it can be a catalyst for serious transit from Stearns Wharf to Costco.
You speak of a resentfull northern twang. It is not my intent to discriminate. My suggestions would be to inclued all ethnic and economic classes in the new re-developed Old Town while improving transit transporation to adjacent "fru fru" suburban neighborhoods of Goleta and beyond.
CV road has almost no industry along it. Hollister serves a fair amount of industry to the north and south of Old Town. Of course fru-fru Santa Barbarans and Montecitans wouldn't know industry from a valet parking service.
Descrying auto-centricity is just a beard for snobbiness; that is really what fuels the anger of overboard folks like Cars are Basic. You simply must plan for cars if only to get them out of the way for non-cars. Saying the Snap-On tool truck guy can use the bus or every UPS delivery from the center on Pine St. in Old Town can ride a bicycle (as they deliver vast quantites of fru-fru internet purchases to Montecito) is just plain ignorant.
Now, if you think the News-Press on Kellogg should deliver all its papers by Hogwarts' Owl, I'd agree with you there. But then the N-P would need a witch in charge to arrange it. Too bad Arthur von W is a squib.
Old Town is not a tear-down. It needs some facelifts, some wide sidewalks fter cars are re-routed and parking made off streets, but most of all it needs vibrant businesses and recognition of its spanish-speaking majority. The Old Town revitalization PAC didn't even have a translator! And it needs to stand up for itself and ignore the fru-fru oppression of ignorant posers from outside.
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