Santa Barbara Politics, Media & Culture

Monday, December 03, 2007

News-Press North, Chumash Legitamacy and Native American Genealogy

Much like Wendy McCaw, but much more open about it...Nancy Crawford Hall bought the Santa Ynez Valley Journal a little over a year ago but has made no bones about battling any and every expansion plan put forth by the Chumash Casino and the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians. Capitol Weekly wrote a story about it last month.

Vincent Armenta, Chair of the tribe, took his own pot shots at Crawford Hall and the Santa Ynez Journal in the Capitol Weekly shortly thereafter.

If that weren't enough, James Lynch who is a "nationally recognized Ethno-historical, research consultant" went so far as to question the tribe's legitimacy and even the genealogy of Chairman Armenta in yet another Capitol Weekly op-ed piece. He wonders out loud whether their reservation is really theirs.

If you've watched Santa Ynez Valley/3rd District politics for awhile, you know that the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians rarely let anyone else have the last word -- mainly because if you say something long and strong enough, it becomes the truth for many. The interestingly-named-for-his-position Sam Cohen -- "Government and Legal Affairs Specialist for the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians" wrote yet another op-ed piece deriding Lynch's assertions.

In Sunday's News-Press, Travis Armstrong jumped into the fray and criticized Crawford Hall. No stranger to bias, Armstrong knows of what he speaks. Armstrong, who does disclose his Native American ancestry whenever required, must have wondered whether he was writing about News-Press North. Maybe not.

Legitimacy and blood-lines in Native American tribes is a tricky issue, but the Pechanga Tribe recently ejected 140 members of a family that had lived on the reservation since 1897 (also LA Times, 9/9/07). In a democratic tribe where incomes of tens of thousands in casino monies a month are contingent on membership, much is at stake.

A frequent reader who gave me the content and the links which make up this post (which I researched as well) notes that "It is rare that history and genealogy enter public debate in the US. Weirder still is that modern DNA testing could in principle sort out these issues, but almost certainly will not be used."

Why? This is not a new issue as there are African-American Indians in Oklahoma who have been shunned and denied DNA test proof that they are Native American enough to belong to a tribe. Add land use planning into the mix and you have a battle royale, a thrilla' in Manilla that is far from over. The gloves have been off for some time -- but will an admittedly-biased newspaper owner (who enjoys the support of the majority of her community) have her way or will state law which can name the Chumash Highway intervene and say 'no way'?

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

the support of the majority of her community? says who? i love that a rancher has a voice in this community but she should stick to what she knows because she often overeaches when she tries to tackle other issues that she has so very little understanding of & embarasses herself

12/03/2007 10:55 PM  
Blogger Sara De la Guerra said...

Gosh -- I was almost going to put a rider at the end of my post wondering how long it would take to get a comment like this.

Tell us how she embarrasses herself considering the aforementioned information and our peeps will be more likely to listen.

Get investigative on us and help us change our minds! What exactly is it that shows so little understanding? We do the same around McCaw don't we? Let's be fair.

12/03/2007 11:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a comment like this? what is that supposed to mean? i was just giving you my honest opinion which i'm almost sorry i bothered to do

just take a read - her editorials which are online & you'll get an idea about some of what i'm talking about

i haven't been on this blog in ages & don't aspire to being an invetigative journalist so can only urge you to read what she writes & make up your own mind

you didn't answer the question as to where you get your info re the support of the majority of her community (unless you mean regarding the casino specifically which could be true but i don't know of any polls taken & the paper is free)

then again, take a look at all the syv orgs that accept money from the chumash foundation - the very long list is on their website - so what does that mean?

just trying to give it to you straight from someone in syv

good night

12/03/2007 11:42 PM  
Anonymous saxpilil said...

I liked your link to the Oklahoma cases, Sara.

One real good comment... why should tribal governments be spared the kind of harsh criticism that we subject the US Government to?

The Chumash tribal government needs to grow a thicker skin. And they need to realize that a whole lot of people who are sympathetic to them aren't very enamoured with gambling and the rather low class of people that gambling brings to our area.

It is really, really, weird that in this day and age income is, for Indian Tribes, tied to genealogy and history of your family. That the Indian tribes settle this by the rigamarole of democracy is in one sense fascinating, but in another sense horrible. DNA will be able, in the near future and actually in many cases right now, to completely resolve genealogical issues. The Indians would do very well to be become the most ethical possible users of DNA technology.

If the California Indians do not do so, I for one would strongly want to see their gambling monopoly sunset in 20 years or so, after they've made enough money to raise up their standard of living and endowments to the point where they are no longer disadvantaged.

12/03/2007 11:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

read some of her views on environmentalists in the

Archive » October 19, 2007

Archive » October 26, 2007

if there were more archives i could find more examples but this will have to suffice for now

12/04/2007 12:11 AM  
Blogger O Pechanga said...

It's easy to not embarrass yourself when you remain anonymous.
Thank you for mentioning the Pechanga Band's unconstitutional removal of family's (agains the PECHANGA CONSTITUTION.
Our family was removed even though Pechanga PROVED we were members through their OWN expert. My blog has a link to KNBC's news story.

EACH tribe should be judged on it's own merits. Pechanga has failed its membership. VOTE NO on expanded gaming.

12/04/2007 2:40 AM  
Blogger Sara De la Guerra said...

11:42 pm -- my apologies...I think I'm too used to trolls around here :)

I don't have data other than Santa Ynez folks I know who are very concerned about Chumash expansion. I spend a good deal of time up there are have heard it from a lot of different people -- that's all.

12/04/2007 5:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When your genealogy determines your membership in a government and your entitlement to hundreds of thousands of dollars of tribal government money per year, it is not a `personal attack' to question whether your family was really part of the government in question.

That Armenta is so touchy about questions about his membership might be the tip of an iceberg of guilt.

12/04/2007 6:57 AM  
Anonymous Butterfly Puff said...

Thanks for the post, a well written prelude to a brutal boxing lesson.

DNA/Science is the answer to the holy grail of the bloodline-pot 'o' gold question. Problem is though that there are probably no true "natives." All are now unfortunately converts to the tribe of capitalism. Business, bribes, gambling, pyramid schemes, non-profits, property rights, and snooty ideas of lineage will ruin SYV just like every other place on the planet.

So lets not give up on earth. I'm with the eco-terrorists on just about everything. Let the boxing match begin!

12/04/2007 7:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A DNA test would answer the question. Who is Chumash.
I can understand why the people involved would not want that as it may very well prove that there are no Chumash left only imports from other tribes.
I like the casino but if it is not legal then it must be closed down unless every other citizen in the state has the right to start a casino.
So who has the responsibility to find out whether the tribe members are real Chumash? Is it the State that should do this as a legal requirement in order to be granted the license to operate a casino?
Let the DNA test begin.

12/04/2007 7:51 AM  
Anonymous Valley girl said...

Admitted bias is still bias.
But the advantage to "News-Press North" is that it's up front and transparent.
You can read the stories in the Valley Journal with the knowledge that they're not objective, and interpret the content from there.
What's really a shame for the SYV right now is that there is no hard-hitting reporting looking into what's going on.
Even Nora Wallace at the NP, who used to have editors who encouraged her to dig, has backed way off.
The SY Valley News, never much of a hard hitting journal, is just fragments from the SM Times. The best one can hope for is a Chuck Schultz piece that happens to touch on Valley issues.
It's a scary news back hole for Santa Ynez, where the audience is not likely to gravitate to online sources, simply because of age and readership trends.

12/04/2007 8:21 AM  
Anonymous Don Jose de la Guerra y Noreiga said...

I would like to point out that there are a large number of monitering jobs in archaeology,including a myriad of mitigation scenarios and controls,that impact all sorts of economic projects outside the reservation and come about because of a mind boggling policy based on the idea of tribal sovereignty on what's in the ground--and that's everywhere and not just on the reservation. These policies are part of CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) I believe. There is a map that no one can see.

At the this time we should note that"the authority" in these CEQA applications must be tribal.

This therefore requires a system of recognized tribal affiliation and the idea of knowing who's an Indian.

Indian sovereignty while fairly clear on the reservation, is mutating rapidly into one that encroaches on what's in the ground everywhere. While in some metaphorical sense, this set of racial preferences in CEQA whose policies are in the last analysis based on blood ties, reminds one of Nazis Aryan policies of the past, one must see that certain abuses really do happen and the potential for other abuses remains a growing menace.

Just wanted to get these ambiguities and dangers out there.

12/04/2007 10:23 AM  
Anonymous sa1 said...

"11:42 pm -- my apologies...I think I'm too used to trolls around here :)"

Ohh, that hurts...(sniff)

Nothing worse than being gotten used to...

12/04/2007 5:42 PM  
Anonymous sa1 said...

One question I've always had:

Are American Indians actually citizens who can vote?

If so, why do they get to make up their own laws?
Why don't we have borders around these "Soverign Nations" requiring Visas and passports?

This whole "I'm 1/8 Indian" is crap. If the African Americans don't get their 40 acres and a mule, the quasi Indians don't get to make...$40,000 A MONTH???

This is obscene when you consider they produce nothing.

And why do the tribes apparently get to vote who's gets the giveaway?

What's stopping them from putting in a Red Light District? God knows they can make billions on that.

The really sick thing is gambling in a rigged house (all casinos really) is a total losing proposition. We used to have laws against this because they are mostly prey on the poor...just like the state lotteries. Boy this country is really going down the crapper.

It's all about greed. It's all about "I want to get filthy rich while doing nothing." From the coporate liers and thieves to the punk gangbangers ripping off the neighbors. This aint the America I envisioned when I was 16.

I want my effing flying car!

12/04/2007 6:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sara, apology accepted.

yes sy folks are very concerned about casino expansion. so in that area, the syv journal is doing a great service.

it is just that too often she gets on a soapbox without taking time to inform herself on the issues

some of the earlier editorials were quite outrageous, but maybe her new editor is having a positive affect on her choice of subjects

12/04/2007 8:09 PM  
Blogger Sara De la Guerra said...

Thanks 8:09 PM -- I'll be more careful next time.

I've been getting a bit more cynical while watching Hilary and Barack, as well as Romney and Guiliani go after each other while quality candidates like Edwards,Biden, McCain and Huckabee are considered spoilers when reporters only have time for a two candidate horse race.

My upset at the state of affairs of our electoral system which awards PAC donations and parsing, may have spilled over here.

Non sequitir? Maybe...but my life is a melange of issues that all tie together.

12/04/2007 8:45 PM  
Anonymous saxpilil said...

anyone know how the Santa Ynez Chumash treat all the Chumash who are not related to mission families from Santa Ynez? For example, Barbareno, Ventureno, Obispeno, or Purisimeno?

Can those other groups of Chumash get health care at Ineseno facilities?

12/04/2007 9:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sure hope POLO and POSY hire John Johnson of the Natural History Museum to sift through all the Chumash family trees with a fine toothed come.

12/04/2007 9:44 PM  
Anonymous Don Jose de la Guerra y Noreiga said...

John Johnson at the Natural History Museum with his remarkable genealogical work on the history of Chumash families, holds the keys to the Indian castle. He is very knowledgeable about the science of DNA as well.

One should be obliged to mention some historic background. Andrew Jackson's administration (starting 1828...) and what was called "Indian Removal" policy is one of the greatest ugly chapters in American History--ugly, really ugly. There's a lot to say about this but its implications are staggering.

And here in Santa Barbara it was the Mission System and the good intentions of the friars that set up the Chumash for the disaster of corrupt Mexican rule.

I'm with the individual here who commented that it's too bad it's gambling and unsavory stuff that seems to provide sustenance for the Tribes, and that's true all across the country. But think of it in the context of Italian American immigrants who set up the Mafia. And let's not forget the Irish!

The recent history that most interested me, and caused my worries about the implications of politically correct Indian policy today, was the recent discovery of a 10,000 year old body near the outlet of the Columbia River that appeared to be Caucasian--certainly a remarkable find since this is thousand of years before traditional time frame for the arrival of Europeans, and yet this find had to be given up to tribes instead of being a "forever" object scientific study...tribal ways might not be the best way.

One last thought, the Chumash appear to have been here for a very long time too, on the order of 10,000 years, and they spoke not so long ago, a language whose linguistic links don't connect up to any other tribal languages in California. Where did they come from?

Thus, the Chumash are the least likely to ever be accused of being newcomers, and that fact ought to cut them some slack.

Let's give their tribe an opportunity to develop their own way and we can judge them by their works...Do they educate their children, care for their poor, and build community institutions that we can all honor? What will they do with their money?

We certainly can see what we have done with our money! Is it better?

12/05/2007 7:00 AM  
Anonymous Don Jose de la Guerra y Noreiga said...

I'd also like to make a comment about bias, community newspapers and ownership.

In the early 19th century, one of the most remarkable characteristicsof American character and culture was the proliferation of newspapers that carried a wide variety of views--often on hot political topics. Two economic elements supported this widespread reality: Newspapers existed everywhere--even in the most distant small frontier settlements.

The first institution was the post office--another great American achievement. The post office like newspapers existed everywhere and was the backbone for the distribution of news and THE locale for political conversation in the community. Here's the interesting second fact. Publishers of newspapers could send their publications free of postage charges to other Publishers. Since copyright issues and all that were non-existent, it was common practice to reprint, say a story from Boston in a paper in Cleveland, without charge. Much like Blogs today, the free copying of articles that support a publisher's bias was the common practice-- of not only newspaper articles but commentary about them--COMMENTARY THAT USED PSEUDONYMS! This too is much like Blogs today. A good commentary might reach says 1000 newspapers, written by someone who might call themselves "Publicola!"

There were an enormous numbers of newspapers in the early Republic--some 50,000 in 1830, all filled with news and commentary copied for free from all over the country, indeed, all over the world.

This remarkable cultural characteristic of Americans also verifies and proves that back then at least (if not now), that literacy was widespread -- a much remarked upon cultural feature of Americans written about by visitors from abroad.

What there is to regret is not bias, or unusual content, but the disappearance of variety and the free distribution and copying.

I think Blogs are a rebirth of this past habit, and nothing new but a long existant part of our American culture. Old wine in new bottles,'if you will.

Congrats to the new source for news in the Santa Ines Valley. May there be many more!

12/05/2007 9:34 AM  
Anonymous HERE IS FACT AND .... said...

and.... all you need do is check out the US Government and then write them and insist on the answer.

MY CLOSE and first cousin works for the General Accounting Office in Washington DC. He is not a kid.
His job is to "KEEP THE AMERICAN INDIANS HAPPY." At all costs. His job is to write the checks to the American Indian Tribes.

Did I believe it? Yes and No. So I tripped to DC to his office and sure enough, I was able to see the "unclassified" history of the taxpayer dollars used to "Keep the Amerian Indians Happy."

Does this bother me? NO WAY. But I wish that all taxpayers were told about our "Help" as we are told about all International spending.

SECOND FACT and I will ask my brother to write to Sara if she'd like:

My brother has been in GAMING after graduAting from College in Utah (where he moved to please his spouse.) He fell in love with the OLD Las Vegas and has managed more casinos that are now 'gone' and replaced by the WYNN gang of corporate thieves vs the Organized crime gang. Different type thieves.

(Hate to admit we are almost 60.)

ANYWAY.... When Indian Tribes from all over the U.S. turned to gaming industry, my darling brother volunteered to help the Management companies who only took 7% for 7 years as pay from the Indians to first: Teach them how to count to 21 and learn to deal "21" or Blackjack. My brother's classes went so well that he was in demand from the subsequent Management companies soon charging 10% for 10 years to oversee all building, teaching, promotion, and whatever it took to make the Indian Tribes become self-sufficient in their own gaming industry.

These "gaming' Tribes then took zero dollars from the taxpayers as told to me by my GAO cousin and I felt some great sense of satisfaction that the tribes were willing to work and take care of their own.

I did not pay attention to the "charges" of how the Indians allegedly spent their money, etc. as it is none of my business so long as my taxes aren't involved.

Now, when I learned about all the hoopla originally in Santa Ynez when the Chumash wanted to expand, I thought, "Good for them if they are not taking any taxpayer dollars and doing the work on their own."

Not a gambler myself, (because I don't like it and my brother told me the inside information) I have only been to Chumash ONCE when my brother came to meet with the people there. Just once.

I sort of "heard about" land being purchased by "white men" to keep the Chumash from expanding and so I just stopped paying attention lest I get crazed. Nothing is fair in this area as far as I can see, hear or feel.

Only because of the "Hits" on Travis again but not related to Wendy, I asked around to find out why people are picking on him and then learned about his family background, etc.

Then Sara started this blog and I saw a few comments that subconcsiousaly told me to, "WRITE" "SHARE" and if it flies, fine. If not, I have contributed. I called my brother and he said, "WRITE your version and I will back you up!" You see, he knows this place very well and "knows" there are always issues here as we are close and he visits with his family often.

My GAO cousin said he can only share "unclassified" information but that is already available online.

HOPE THIS DOES SOME GOOD... IF NOT... SO BE IT. It would be typical of SB citizens if I was "slammed" for doing what I think is a service. I only live here.. my whole life... but I travel to "escape" the newer SB.


12/05/2007 7:47 PM  
Blogger Sara De la Guerra said...

7:47 PM -- sounds like your GAO cousin has had an interesting life. He is welcome to join us...thanks for the perspective.

12/05/2007 8:29 PM  
Anonymous 7:47 re GAO cousin said...

Sara... My brother can say something but GAO cousin as I believe I meant to say, can't share anything other than what is online. Sad to say.

I will, however, call to ask for a 'tiny' update as regards this administration but it has always been the same since I was a teen.

"Write the Check" is the Mantra.

Meantime, I found it really interesting that two members of the same close family ended up working with American Indians and both involving $$$$. Plus both LOVE their work.

12/06/2007 12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

don noriega... yes, for sure Andrew Jackson was quite brutal. One explanation of his behavior I read once was that during the Revolutionary War the British in the South offered Indians and blacks money and freedom for fighting on the British side, and in the South the British were particularly brutal.

So when the American side one, lots of revenge was taken on both Indian and Black communities, leading to the Trail of Tears and also more pitiless implementation of slavery. Tit for Tat.

I agree blogs resemble the early newspapers... the free press and unforeseen consquences.

I wonder where the practice of deep, professional investigative reporting comes from, though. By the Watergate era it was in full flower. World War II contracting scandals?

And that kind of investigative reporting requires a fair amount of financial support and hardcore professional journalists. That part of the press seems to be suffering in the internet era... instead we get 1000's of bloggers checking the typeface on a Bush draft letter, but darned few digging through hard-to-get records or coming through budgets and bringing travesties to light. Instead we get millions of off the cuff opinions.

For the Chumash here, some real investigative reporting is needed.

12/06/2007 4:51 AM  
Anonymous Don Jose de la Guerra y Noreiga said...

Dear Anonymous 4:51AM. I see you get up early just like me!

I think you'll find that the Cherokee Indians helped Jackson fight the British and had an important role in Jackson's successes in the war--but basically Jackson just shafted them soon thereafter and the example of the Georgia land grab is pure greed on the part of Americans and treaties and promises were thrown out the window. Like I said, ugly really ugly. It wasn't called "Indian Removal" for nothing. And it only gets worse after Jackson. Only the religious minded reformers, resisted American policy and cared about the Indians. And unfortunately they wanted conversion to Christianity as their real goal, just like the Spanish Padres here.

The only honorable part of the story is President John Quincy Adams...who enforced the treaty rights and held back the state of Georgia. For this he was roundly defeated in the next Presidential election.

Hey, I'm with you in thinking that the large newspapers with professional staff have a use--and it may very well be in investigative reporting. But professionalism and institutional standards are a slippery thing. I think the many ex-reporters who we read here on the blog will vouch for that. I am for "Dual Use" journalism and the example you give of bloggists investigating typefaces and relating it to editions of Windows software is of couse the classic example of good work.

As far as I'm concerned the more journalists the better.

Being a reader of old newspapers, I must say, that those old anonymous writers with pseudonyms from the past were really good writers and the cream rose to the top and the best was circulated far and wide.

Historians spend a lot of time and research now figuring out who wrote what.

So next time here on blogabarbara take up a pseudo and stick with it.

12/06/2007 8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

News Press We love yah!
Hang in there. We are behind Yah!

Union we love yah NOT!
Don't let the door hit yah on the way out!

12/07/2007 6:07 PM  
Anonymous sa1 said...

I think it is time we SHUT DOWN the whole Indian Gaming business!

Much like organised crime, they have taken to subverting the system by spreading huge amounts of money to public officials to get their way. A sure sign that they know they're wrong and can't win without cheating.

Even the Governator has been bought now.

The renaming of the highway was just the tip. A way to smugly show the power they now wield with all the cash they've suckered out of the poor and retired. That ain't Monte Carlo out there, it's a money vacuum that corrupts everyone that touches it.

Even worse is that the so called "tribe" is a recent invention leveraging the "white guilt" game that is played out on many levels in this country.

The PC mongers have created a monster that is slowing destroying the fabric of Americana.

It's no longer enough to get educated and work hard, buy a house and enjoy your friends and family.

No, much better to game the system, buy influence, lie, cheat and steal. There's no ethics left in this country. There's no length people won't go to enrich themselves on others loss. Better to figure out a con to take someone else's wealth than create it by producing a product that people want and need.

"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money, the Scat has hit the fan."

12/10/2007 8:53 AM  
Anonymous Vegas Cookie said...

Leave the Indians ALONE!

What is wrong with you? Get your own brilliant idea and start your own SCAM! Envy if it is legal; envy if it is not; envy no matter where money comes from.

Watch the News. Medicare has lost billions and billions to scammers and continues to do so! Now I just gave you an idea! Go for it.

The Indians are not stealing; just doing as Vegas and Atlantic City does. Taking Social security checks from the elderly which is their bread and butter. The icing on the cake is always the High Rollers but rarely seen on Indian reservations. The locals love them, however.

Steve Wynn has admitted he screwed up all those low-life years so he finally grew up and now bringing in all the foreign money which is better than taking those SS checks.

However, the Mob days were better at managing the casino as told from experience recently by all celebs on recent documentary about Don Rickels and his crowd from "those" days. Corporations can't even find the 'skim' let alone turn a big profit.

12/11/2007 11:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, the Indians are doing as Vegas and Atlantic City does, and shut them all down, one and all.

All the gambling degrades the spirit of all involved. Set their spirits free by abolishing all gambling in the U.S.

With the Indians, do it after they've accumulated enough dirty loot to raise themselves up out of penury. Then shut all gambling down in the US. It is gross.

12/12/2007 7:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:25 a.m.

Could not disagree more. There are vices that cannot be stopped so you can choose not to have one, like smoking, drugs, overeating.

The Lotteries throughout the country, to me, are insane as I can't see where the money is doing the good that the States allegedly proposed to get the licenses, etc. Talk about gambling?

Indian gaming is here to stay so, like Vegas and A/C, you don't go. These places are not "in your face."

I personally do not like gambling but for those who choose to do so, it is still a free country!

12/13/2007 12:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A speed-head who was a dealer in Vegas got on a binge, stayed up on speed for a week, drove to Ridgerest and raped a friend of mine.

The vice of gambling spreads out like a virus from places like Vegas.

Shut those places down. They induce felonius behavior and a degrading of the spirit.

Shut all gambling, lotteries, everything gambling down unless it is 1000 miles or more from the US.

It is gross.

12/13/2007 7:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree again.

The MOB ran Vegas quite well. The new and young "novice" Mob screwed up Atlantic City. Rudy G. as Prosecutor in NYC went after the 5 families and acccomplished what Elliott Ness could not do. Sadly, that was the end of the Old but Good Las Vegas.

Testimony by elder celebs has been given time and again plus recently on a 2007 HBO special featuring the who's who that are still alive and well. Bob Newhart, Don Rickles, Wayne Newton, for starters who can now tell all about working in Las Vegas in the good old days.

Steve Wynn started the corporate take over in the junk bond era of Michael Milken. Thus, the corporate greed factor is what spread gambling throughout the entire U.S.; the corporate management teams approached the Indian Tribes to try gambling on their reservations. The corporate greed enticed the States to try lotteries with promises of Utopia but where did most of the money really go?

What about horse racing? You did not mention gambling on horses. Gambling on dog races in Florida? Another example. Bingo; Raffles in Church and schools; weekly poker parties in private homes and locations. You must be aware of all the public businesses that have regular high stakes poker games complete with city officials either playing or "on the take" to keep the premises secure.

Need I go on? Again, I personally do not gamble. But, gambling is a fact of life. If all legalized gambling was stopped, where would the people who earn a living in the huge industry find work? Who would pay for their health care?
It never ends. Turn your head and walk away and just know that once again, public officials allowed this to happen and we voted for the public officials.

12/13/2007 10:53 PM  
Anonymous sa1 said...


Once again I've come up with the perfect win-win-win solution:

1. Can the gambling. (Thus allowing Grandma to afford a decent gift for me this ludichrizmas...

2. Replace the gambling income with Pot and Shroom sales. They could hold Saturday night services and tithe the congrgation just like all the other religeons. (Thus eliminating the need for another Trail of Tears)

3. Make them offer free home delivery using electric cars. (Thus eliminating the untithed congregating around the pot shops)

12/14/2007 9:21 AM  
Anonymous The better solution said...

sai: WRONG!

Let's have bookies running numbers on every street corner every single day.

Let's have street betting on football games instead of in private homes on private land lines where the bookie pays the owner to "leave your house for a few hours." He uses your phone to take bets just once and moves on so he does get caught.

Let's have poker games in all mobile home parks every single night of the week and not get busted.

Invite the police chief and sheriff to all gaming along with the political officials.

Let's just get it all out in the open because it is done every single day, but quietly and illegally.

Next, we can make drugs legal. Not!

12/15/2007 1:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glorify the mob in Las Vegas? They are killers, rapists, torturers, and swindlers. This new-age fawning over rotten criminals is disgusting.

Mussolini made the trains in Italy run on time. Doesn't mean he is worthy of respect. Hanging upside down from a gas station sign was appropriate for him.

Stop it all. The old way in America... no gambling... is right. Get money by hard work, not gambling.

Can the lotteries, the horse racing, everything. They cost way, way more in societal costs in we get in benefits.

Low lifes hang out around gambling places and they get the feeling they can do anything. End it all.

Put Steve Wynn in jail and throw away the key. Too bad Milken only served 18 months.

I'll never forget my friend in Ridgecrest.

End all gambling in the US. It is a scourge.

12/15/2007 7:32 AM  

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